LoG 2 very poor performance...

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vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

Grimrock might spawn some threads but this might not all mean that relevant enigne parts run concurrently.
of course, Grimrock might spawn threads here and there without even know it (etc. via a 3rd engine inside Grimrock engine).
I don't know if Grimrock 1/2 are designed with MT in mind, one can't really identify it by checking the threads it uses, but nevertheless the game seems to be multi-threaded since it uses more threads. Although this doesn't mean it increases the performance, the threads themselves may have nothing to do with the bottleneck after all.
Actually the purpose of threads themselves are to encapsulate heavy, performant stuff, while doing the rest in other thread.
Thanks for also looking into this topic & your enthusiasm writting code for it
I'm actually curious about this since i had in mind to add some MT code into my own library as well :)
I'm really wondering why the Open world Grimrock scenes are so heavy, obviously multi-threading is not the problem.
Next step would be the GPU case, and i can't find the console command for showing tris per scene :(
Do the performance increase/decrease?
Actually some posts ago i did that test, the result was 0% increase in performance (setting the affinity for: all processors, or 1/2,3/4, no matter) so conclusion is while Grimrock 2 is a multi-threaded application, this doesn't reflect in performance (at least for me). This adds to conclusion that Grimrock is GPU-bound application.
Last edited by vlzvl on Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by badhabit »

vlzvl wrote:
Grimrock might spawn some threads but this might not all mean that relevant enigne parts run concurrently.
I'm really wondering why the Open world Grimrock scenes are so heavy, obviously multi-threading is not the problem.
We should discuss this more ;) I came to opposite conclussion, at least for low GPU settings CPU performance matters, e.g. for all the poor laptop LoG2 players, and serious multithreading of relevant engine aspects would help them. :)
vlzvl wrote:
Do the performance increase/decrease?
Actually some posts ago i did that test, the result was 0% increase in performance (setting the affinity for: all processors, or 1/2,3/4, no matter) so conclusion is while Grimrock 2 is a multi-threaded application, this doesn't reflect in performance. This is adds to conclusion that this is GPU-bound application.
If I remember right you brought LOG2 not in a CPU performance bound situation. You need your GPU-Z load being <99%, meaning CPU performance starts to matter. For that, reduce resolution (e.g. 320x200!), GPU options to minimum, no vsync & framerate limiter.
(You are right for your setting and hardware combo, with your settings LoG2 is GPU bound. But LoG2 is not a GPU bound application for all relevant use-cases, see my tests and CPU upgrade report.)
vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

If I remeber right you brought LOG2 not in a cPU boudn situation. You need your GPU-Z load being <99%, meaninc CPU performance starts to matter. For that, reuce resolution, GPU options to minmium, no vsync & framerate limiter.
Well, my GPU-z says that GPU is always loaded by ~99%.
Total CPU usage is about 25% jumping off to 35% occasionally.
Why's the GPU usage matters anyway? It's alyway on red, meaning clearly it's bottlenecking CPU (although i know im out of minimum reqs, just wondering why is always 100% loaded) and this on lowest official settings:

1024x768, VSync off, all low

on 800x600 and 640x480 and then i can't really apply any settings since the button is beyond monitor :P
Last edited by vlzvl on Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by badhabit »

vlzvl wrote:
If I remeber right you brought LOG2 not in a cPU boudn situation. You need your GPU-Z load being <99%, meaninc CPU performance starts to matter. For that, reuce resolution, GPU options to minmium, no vsync & framerate limiter.
Well, my GPU-z says that GPU is always loaded by ~99%.
Total CPU usage is about 25% jumping off to 35% occasionally.
Why's the GPU usage matters anyway? It's alyway on red and this on lowest official settings:

1024x768, VSync off, all low

on 800x600 and 640x480 and then i can't really apply any settings since the button is beyond monitor :P
You can apply all settings (resolution, GFX options) via the grimrock.cfg... 320x200 is fun try it! ;) (And set windowed mode!)
vlzvl wrote: Why's the GPU usage matters anyway? It's alyway on red and this on lowest official settings:
It matters as it shows that there in your current setup is another bottleneck, which we have to remove first before analyzing another aspect, the CPU performance (or the multicore performance). We have to bring the GPU load significantly below 99% e.g. at least 70%.
vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

You can apply all settings (resolution, GFX options) via the grimrock.cfg... 320x200 is fun try it! ;)
Yes i know :) that was your idea that i followed back then, but i actually tired playing washed-up games you know.
If Grimrock 2 can't play in front of me on 1024x768 i'll just wait for some patch.

PS. MMX Legacy actually had a retro style than was so horribly executed. Probably they were just rendering the game in a very-low resolution texture, then showing that to users, and call it retro. I never touched it again since without it the game was just unplayable by low PCs as mine. That technique is called render to texture and one can play a game even in 100x100 resolution :) fully retro
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Dr.Disaster
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by Dr.Disaster »

vlzvl wrote:Conclusion: Grimrock 2 indeed is a multi-threaded application since it uses more threads than system providing (4), although i suppose the bottleneck is low-GPUs.
FYI

Code: Select all

CPU/Thread number for Intel(R) Core(TM:  8
Printing threads for Pid: 5092 (grimrock2.exe)

Thread #0 with ID: 4440
Thread #1 with ID: 2332
Thread #2 with ID: 3604
Thread #3 with ID: 3504
Thread #4 with ID: 4800
Thread #5 with ID: 3740
Thread #6 with ID: 1916
Thread #7 with ID: 4768
Thread #8 with ID: 3276
Thread #9 with ID: 216
Thread #10 with ID: 1100

End printing threads for Pid: 5092
vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

Dr.Disaster wrote:
vlzvl wrote:Conclusion: Grimrock 2 indeed is a multi-threaded application since it uses more threads than system providing (4), although i suppose the bottleneck is low-GPUs.
FYI

Code: Select all

CPU/Thread number for Intel(R) Core(TM:  8
Printing threads for Pid: 5092 (grimrock2.exe)

Thread #0 with ID: 4440
Thread #1 with ID: 2332
Thread #2 with ID: 3604
Thread #3 with ID: 3504
Thread #4 with ID: 4800
Thread #5 with ID: 3740
Thread #6 with ID: 1916
Thread #7 with ID: 4768
Thread #8 with ID: 3276
Thread #9 with ID: 216
Thread #10 with ID: 1100

End printing threads for Pid: 5092
Thanx @Dr.Disaster, i assume you have an i7 with 4 cores and 8 threads?
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Dr.Disaster
Posts: 2874
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by Dr.Disaster »

Aye an i7 950.

Little update to above, after loading one of my savegames with my party being in Forgotten River and not inside the starting cage:

Code: Select all

CPU/Thread number for Intel(R) Core(TM:  8
Printing threads for Pid: 5092 (grimrock2.exe)

Thread #0 with ID: 4440
Thread #1 with ID: 2332
Thread #2 with ID: 4768
Thread #3 with ID: 3276
Thread #4 with ID: 3896
Thread #5 with ID: 2632
Thread #6 with ID: 2740
Thread #7 with ID: 4560
Thread #8 with ID: 4036
Thread #9 with ID: 3768
Thread #10 with ID: 4840
Thread #11 with ID: 2836
Thread #12 with ID: 3332
Thread #13 with ID: 1104
Thread #14 with ID: 3496

End printing threads for Pid: 5092
vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

Dr.Disaster wrote:Aye an i7 950.

Little update to above, after loading one of my savegames with my party being in Forgotten River and not inside the starting cage:

Code: Select all

CPU/Thread number for Intel(R) Core(TM:  8
Printing threads for Pid: 5092 (grimrock2.exe)

Thread #0 with ID: 4440
Thread #1 with ID: 2332
Thread #2 with ID: 4768
Thread #3 with ID: 3276
Thread #4 with ID: 3896
Thread #5 with ID: 2632
Thread #6 with ID: 2740
Thread #7 with ID: 4560
Thread #8 with ID: 4036
Thread #9 with ID: 3768
Thread #10 with ID: 4840
Thread #11 with ID: 2836
Thread #12 with ID: 3332
Thread #13 with ID: 1104
Thread #14 with ID: 3496

End printing threads for Pid: 5092
Yes, the number of threads spawned is not fixed, i encountered that also.
Probably Grimrock spawns more threads on really heavy areas like Forgotten River, although i never seen it (the area), just reading posts :)
vlzvl
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: LoG 2 very poor performance...

Post by vlzvl »

It matters as it shows that there in your current setup is another bottleneck, which we have to remove first before analyzing another aspect, the CPU performance (or the multicore performance). We have to bring the GPU load significantly below 99% e.g. at least 70%.
I'm not able to verify that since there's no scene in Grimrock than my GPU is allowed to breath :)
For my system GPU seems to hogging things up while CPU staying quiet, for other with much better GPU and lower CPU might causing the reverse.
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