Grimrock

Lethaemis wrote:On the note of distinction between normal and hard, I agree there should be more differences(though starving? Come on, you have to fail at food management to come even close to starving. They would need to reduce the amount of food you find to make starving worth the time to program in)

Hard seems to have less food available, and some party setups will cause you to run into food problems when playing on hard mode.

If you cause starvation to kill off characters, then some parties will be unable to pass through hard, since they can't kill mobs fast enough without spending too much food reserves.

Lethaemis wrote: That is indeed what I was looking for though I wish I could hide it when I don't need it(since I only wanted it for accurate mapping purposes ie teleporting to a disconnected area) without restarting the game.

On the note of distinction between normal and hard, I agree there should be more differences(though starving? Come on, you have to fail at food management to come even close to starving. They would need to reduce the amount of food you find to make starving worth the time to program in)

@Lethaemis
good that this helps you
about the "starving" ... yeah old-school players will not be fail in this. But a oldschool player will fail in understanding why their well planed & time consuming food managment had no real importance in the end, at least I felt a little bit "cheated". The game inidicates that the food mechanic is relevant ("game changing consequences") and old-school player will notice this signs and will acting accordingly ... therefore failing in the "food" mechnaic should have an serious consequence, at least my feelings on this topic, cheers

@Thels
yea, I agree could be hard with some parties... but I would argue, therefore this is the oldschool/HC mode!... also selecting a effective party is the responsibility of the player. and selceting a ineffective on must have an consequnce, even fatal one. cheers

badhabit wrote:@Thels
yea, I agree could be hard with some parties... but I would argue, therefore this is the oldschool/HC mode!... also selecting a effective party is the responsibility of the player. and selceting a ineffective on must have an consequnce, even fatal one. cheers

Not so much inefficient as not focused on dealing out raw damage.

If you build your front fighters as tanks, and use your mage as a backup for nasty situations, then fights will last longer than when you go full out on damage. It's not less efficient (because while the fight last longer, you're also able to endure incoming attacks better), just different (unless you actively consider in the food consumption as a major deal in the first place).

Thels wrote:

badhabit wrote:@Thels
yea, I agree could be hard with some parties... but I would argue, therefore this is the oldschool/HC mode!... also selecting a effective party is the responsibility of the player. and selceting a ineffective on must have an consequnce, even fatal one. cheers

Not so much inefficient as not focused on dealing out raw damage.

If you build your front fighters as tanks, and use your mage as a backup for nasty situations, then fights will last longer than when you go full out on damage. It's not less efficient (because while the fight last longer, you're also able to endure incoming attacks better), just different (unless you actively consider in the food consumption as a major deal in the first place).

exactly, this is my point : food is presented by the game from the very beginning as important aspect, therefore it should have a similar severity like the combat mechanic. On failing in one of this aspects there should be a comparable consequence, on combat you have game ending dead... on food you have some kind of "weakness" only ... which then might indirectly lead to an game ending dead in combat. But this connection feels misshaped to me. Failing in food managment should lead directly to an realistic consequence -> starvation.
But overall, I will not question the game mechanic decisions of the devs in general. For the normal mode the food mechanic felt very OK ... (but the old school mode could be a little bit more old school... more variety and distinguishablity between the modes would be a plus!)

badhabit wrote:exactly, this is my point : food is presented by the game from the very beginning as important aspect, therefore it should have a similar severity like the combat mechanic. On failing in one of this aspects there should be a comparable consequence, on combat you have game ending dead... on food you have some kind of "weakness" only ... which then might indirectly lead to an game ending dead in combat. But this connection feels misshaped to me. Failing in food managment should lead directly to an realistic consequence -> starvation.
But overall, I will not question the game mechanic decisions of the devs in general. For the normal mode the food mechanic felt very OK ... (but the old school mode could be a little bit more old school... more variety and distinguishablity between the modes would be a plus!)

The problem is what falls under "failing on food".

I agree that it would be interesting if lacking food would have more severe penalties than it has now. However, that cannot be implemented without tuning down the food consumption for parties that gear upon survivability rather than damage output. Otherwise, you pigeonhole everyone on hard mode into damage output.

Thels wrote:The problem is what falls under "failing on food".

I agree that it would be interesting if lacking food would have more severe penalties than it has now. However, that cannot be implemented without tuning down the food consumption for parties that gear upon survivability rather than damage output. Otherwise, you pigeonhole everyone on hard mode into damage output.

If you are managing food, parties geared on survivability have zero problems with food. The problem is the parties geared towards raw damage end up with way too much food.
I played Fighter(Armor specced) Rogue(Dodge specced) Mage(Ice specced) Mage(Fire specced) which was focused around my front staying alive, and I ended the game with about a full bag of food(on Hard Old School with most secrets completed). My second playthrough I played Rogue(unarmed specced) Rogue(dagger specced) Rogue(Missile specced) Rogue(throwing specced) which clearly is focused on damage, and I ended the game with about 3-4 times as much food.

Both ways I ended with way more food than I needed which means there is room to add penalties/reduce food; however, penalties would only affect the lesser players since the people who think some aspects should be more penalizing/harder aren't even getting close to being penalized.