Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

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petri
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by petri » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:31 pm

Dr.Disaster wrote:Just had an idea (dunno if it's possible)
How about replacing the current distance parameter at which clipping happens with a switch into low rendering low texture mode; maybe even with some blur added on top?
That could work, but I'm not so sure about the perf gain for a number of reasons. Objects in the distance are fairly cheap to render, because they are quite often occluded and many objects use low details lods. We also disable shadows for far away objects.

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petri
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by petri » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:16 pm

Version 2.2.3 has just been released for testing!

Release notes:
- optimized CPU usage of shadow rendering
- optimized water rendering
- added touchscreen mode to game options
- improved dynamic lighting when using low quality rendering mode
- removed draw distance from graphics options
- added new hidden graphics option maxDrawDistance to grimrock.cfg
- added support for drawing portraits using the gui context
- added new scripting function: Champion:resetExp()
- added new scripting hooks: Party.onGetPortrait() and BombItem.onExplode()
- textboxes now use OS X keyboard shortcuts (cmd-c, etc.)
- bug fix: click zones of menu options in main menu and pause menu are slightly off

vlzvl
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by vlzvl » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:24 pm

btw is keyboard repeat also still off by default in 10.10?
I never noticed any keypress repeat problems in OSX, only on linux, although using cocoa.

About the draw distance, i don't know how is it performed in LoG2 but i have experienced problems with camera-based draw distance techniques (zFar).
If the scene is heavy in general, then cutting down the number of processed pixels doesn't gain much.
I much prefer drawing the far objects with their texture/light states stripped off to bare, flat shaded objects.
I also experienced some degree of performance by face culling, drawing far to near the objects to reduce the ztests and fragmenting my huge terrain into smaller fragments, then testing those fragments vs frustum, since LoG2 features giant areas right now.
Terrain is a b#tch :)
On early LoG2 days i think i had asked about the sky and the number of triangles it uses. It seemed to me you've used lots of tris by a random wireframe you've posted then. Why not a simple cubemap technique?
I'm against zFar draw distance since it tends to not give good performance if the scene is already heavy eg. you have to cut lots of distance to make it worth.

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JohnWordsworth
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by JohnWordsworth » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:08 am

Excellent - looking forward to trying the latest patch out Petri. I intend to spend a bit of time playing through the game (instead of just using the Dungeon Editor), but I don't know how quick you need feedback. I will probably get an hour or two tomorrow or Wednesday night, but would be able to put a good few hours in during the coming weekend if that's not too late for you!

I don't know if you noticed this post in another thread, but it was at the bottom of a page, so just wanted to suggest again. It would be mega-useful if you could possibly print a bit more information in the crash log when the save serialisation fails due to having an object reference in a global variable. Just the name of the containing object that caused the crash would likely save modders many, many hours of hair pulling!
My Grimrock Projects Page with links to the Grimrock Model Toolkit, GrimFBX, Atlas Toolkit, QuickBar, NoteBook and the Oriental Weapons Pack.

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JohnWordsworth
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by JohnWordsworth » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:18 am

Initial impressions are that this new build offers a couple of extra FPS than previously - which is cool. To be fair, I tested in 1440x900 (none of the previous resolutions I used, doh!). But jumping to the river, the lowest I saw was 22fps. Given that this is probably one of the spots that gives the lowest FPS in the entire game (even just moving a few steps it went up to above 30fps - and often soured to 60 depending on my facing), I intend to test the game at this resolution in my play through. I like the gloss that high-graphics mode gives more than the high resolution of low-rendering mode :p.
My Grimrock Projects Page with links to the Grimrock Model Toolkit, GrimFBX, Atlas Toolkit, QuickBar, NoteBook and the Oriental Weapons Pack.

minmay
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by minmay » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:21 am

vlzvl wrote:On early LoG2 days i think i had asked about the sky and the number of triangles it uses. It seemed to me you've used lots of tris by a random wireframe you've posted then. Why not a simple cubemap technique?
I'm against zFar draw distance since it tends to not give good performance if the scene is already heavy eg. you have to cut lots of distance to make it worth.
How would you handle the moving clouds etc. with a cube sky?
The sky model in the asset pack is 2820 tris, which doesn't seem like that much to me by today's standards (a mummy is 6506).
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vlzvl
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by vlzvl » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:30 am

How would you handle the moving clouds etc. with a cube sky?
The sky model in the asset pack is 2820 tris, which doesn't seem like that much to me by today's standards (a mummy is 6506).
Honestly, i never had a chance to observe that sky is moving, since FPS was so low (~8 on random outdoor) and sky animation didn't seemed to me so complex it couldn't be handled with less triangles. Although this is just my naive observation.
I don't know how LoG2 handles the sky animation but the usual method is to modify the texture coordinates.
This can apply for either cubemaps (12 triangles) or LoG2 sky models (3K triangles).
One could as well use prendered set of sky images or do something dynamic like perlin noise.
In any case, the update of texture coordinates could be reasonably realistic with both methods.
I never had a chance to look into LoG2 asset pack but since you say a merely mummy has around 7K triangles then we have the winner :)
Although, since LoG2 suffers mostly from outdoor performance, i have to go with terrain and stuff like monsters, boulders that exist in numbers and try to reduce or tesselate that. Shaders will still have to work with those hundreds of thousands vertices, regardless if they're textured/lit/shadowed or far anyway.

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petri
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by petri » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:11 am

@john: i'll check what can be done about the upvalues when I can. About perf, since you are running with vsync on some of the perf gains are lost because the granularity is always the duration of one frame. If you want measure the difference vsync should be off. I measured quite big differences in many places with water, 1-5 milliseconds.

Btw. Modern game engines, like the grimrock engine, render millions, if not tens of millions of polygons per frame. One 2k sky model is nothing to worry about.

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petri
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by petri » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:28 am

Ok, build 2.2.4 will have improved error handling of illegal object references.

Lokagan
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Re: Grimrock 2 Mac Steam Beta

Post by Lokagan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:36 pm

hi there,

Having some problem, mac-beta still working yesterday, today with the update, game directory have simply been deleted, no more game files... so having error no executable file.
Steam Client or game sync with empty data ! ;-)

Hope will be solved soon :mrgreen:

[Edit] Hmmm, i restored the 2.2.2 version with Time Machine. Now the game didn't update ?
Last edited by Lokagan on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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