[MOD] Eye of the Dragon
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - RELEASED verison2
I'm stuck on the riddles room in the high tower level 4, I'm not getting the clues for I drift, I dance etc I thought maybe the quill or a note, but nothing and I've gone and placed all the items I have onto each alcove and so far nothing. Help?
My Dungeons
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
-
Dr.Disaster
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - RELEASED verison2
All i recall here is a room leading to 4 other rooms with teleporters. After clearing those rooms i could head onward.LocalFire wrote:I'm stuck on the riddles room in the high tower level 4, I'm not getting the clues for I drift, I dance etc I thought maybe the quill or a note, but nothing and I've gone and placed all the items I have onto each alcove and so far nothing. Help?
If there were any riddles they've prolly been so simple i already forgot them
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
Ok so I've played and posted my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sccP0_e ... ure=gp-n-y
Now for further notes to elaborate on what I liked and disliked and how I'd change things. Obviously this is just my opinion so yeah take it as it is or parts or whatever
Now for further notes to elaborate on what I liked and disliked and how I'd change things. Obviously this is just my opinion so yeah take it as it is or parts or whatever
SpoilerShow
*This is one of the best looking mods out there, straight up nothing else I've played comes close, I've only seen screenshots for labyrinth of lies and that looks to be the only competition
*The layout is great, non-linear. In my review I made it sound like I may of hated this, that was about having to look for items that I need for riddles that are way back in the dungeon because the non linear element makes this dungeon more fun to explore
*Magic, I like scribing scrolls since I can now use spells I coudn't otherwise use. Finding the scrolls is a good mechanic as well but with the spread of scrolls its a pain to have the 'Wrong' type of mage. I found fire spells last out of all the elements. What I would do is have a script at the start check the highest level elemental magic and give the mage a scroll in their inventory for that element, it makes sense story/lore wise since a trained mage is going to learn a spell at some point before going to a dangerous dungeon and it solves the problem of the mage being 'useless' until you find their scroll, I don't need a mage throwing stuff, I have a rogue for that. As for higher level spells fine with having them scattered about, it rewards the player to search if they want the better scrolls for other spells but I think they should start with something.
*Traps don't make so much sense in this as in EoB2, I know it had traps but you can disable/disarm them in EoB. And yes traps can work in grimrock, but a random fireball nailing me in the middle of a hallway? bad! Set a plate or leave a place to dodge or some clue or something so I can react to avoid the trap.
*Insta-Death. Ok if you had a pit like in the mines fine, I avoided these but others may react by jumping down them to see if theres anything down there (as the main game has conditioned them to do) so a note or something left by the mine foreman mentioning that these are death pits. As for things like the door that opens for the four water orbs, you clearly have a script that checks if the party is holding the things before teleporting them to avoid the death trap, so change it to only open the door like if item: party:getChampion: slot whatever is Water_orb then door_blah:open() else spawn:fireburst(party, x, y facing etc). That fixes it so the door punishes you for not having the orbs, doesn't kill you and force a reload and forces imported parties to actually find the orbs. Other wise remove death traps, I'm in the ice gardens now (because I like to finish what I start) and I stepped onto a random square and died, from full health my lvl 20 party was randomly killed and that trap served zero purpose, if you had to have it mark the locations where I can/can't walk and frostburst me, it suits the setting and not left standing there going "WHAT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF".
*Warnings, I walked into the res chamber see the life crystal and right in front of me a treasure! so I grab it and BAM! most of my party dies, theres a note to one side warning me that the room is trapped, but the flow of the room means I ( and I'll assume most players) will trigger the trap before they read the note. The layout of the room needs to be changed move the altar so I get the note first and then the trap is my fault, rather than a what the hell moment.
*Hints, like I said in the review I like most of the puzzles but some were trial and error and that was bad, it takes no skill or thought to solve these its just luck to guess, provide a clue or hint (like those riddles! they were good), I'm talking about the pressure plate puzzle in the prison wallset area (can't remember names) I read on the forums it is susposed to be and X (I solved it by placing rocks on all the plates and it opened so maybe thats a bug) so for an X maybe a clue like "like the atlas treasure marked" (X marks the spot). But this comes up in other spots too, like beating the two high priests in the mine area/ high priest room I just guessed that I needed something on the altar and whacked on random stuff from the treasure room until the portal opened (after wall scanning to find a secret button for the same purpose) need a clue here to speed things up. Lastly I come to the room with the weights (four alcoves put a certain weight on them to open the door) I just guessed that it was weight here after trying other things and because I've seen this used in other mods, some players may not be aware of such a thing and have troubles (skipping over this room) add something like "weigh your choices well" to hint at this. Oh and the feed me thing, make him say "I have rich tastes" or something when a non coin is put in place so the player isn't just randomly guessing what it might want.
*Backtracking, I don't mind revisiting part of the dungeon to get into new areas and the like as I said, I don't like having to wander around looking at the floor to find item X because I didn't think it was important and now I need it. So you need to slip in the items nearby so I don't have to go far, a good way might be to put in 'easy' secrets, namely a secret that is obvious so the player will find it and the item but not go "hey why is this here? I must need it!". Another point to raise is that face that eats items and gives you rocks, I did need the rocks for the son of the boulder door but that can still eat anything it seems and that includes quest items and the like that I NEED, so just get rid of that thing! scatter so rocks about the floor of the dungeon, rocks are always good to have for puzzles and pressure plates so its not odd to find them about and the player should be able to put boulders son together quickly enough that the rocks around the place won't ruin the riddle (it was kinda easy and the rocks would be spread across all the floors and rooms anyway). The last thing to say about backtracking is that doors close and prevent me getting back into areas if I missed something I needed (like the key I mentioned) really I should be able to get back to any section of the dungeon I need to visit. And about that key, I wandered past it since its in a hallway and not a room so I was going for the teleporter and missed it, I know this one is all my own fault for rushing but if I did it others will too, so maybe expand the hallway into a room, if its a room the player will stop and look around and is less likely to repeat my mistake.
*Combat. It ranges from standard grimrock combat which is fine, to hordes and traps. Grimrock combat is all about movement so trapping a player is never a good solution if anything getting force cornered isn't as challenge, since it requires less from the player, they just stand there and click attack and maybe use a potion. I said in the video that the ideal combat encounter (for me) is a 3x3 room (I said 9x9 by accident I know) the player has restricted space to move and has to watch both the monsters in order to avoid being cornered, in this way the combat is difficult and challenging, the ideal situation where the better the player the better they do (and its less of a frustration) In these cases the player can see it was their error that trapped and killed them and so they can try again without feeling it to be a grind or unfair. I addition you can change it up by changing the monsters in the place (two melee, one melee one ranged or a melee and an ogre) or if you want to really do something interesting try the monster I call the Corruptor, its a reskined big herder that has an onMove hook
Calling the script entity
This means you have a big herder that can trail poison behind it, you have to move around to avoid its poison cloud attacks and be careful of how it moves or risk filling the room with poison!
Anyway the thing with combat is your player should feel that any failure is because they should of done this or that rather than you forced them into a corner and beat the crap out of them.
Ultimately I know this is a remake and so has to be faithful to the source, but you should look at the dungeon and ask why is this here? do I need this? How is making my dungeon better and could I improve it? I know that can be hard, I've made many mistakes with my own dungeons and as the creator you see things differently from the player and it makes it harder to judge how a player will react to the dungeon. I always run into the problem with difficulty when making a dungeon, I know where all the good items are, where all the monsters and traps are and the answer to all the puzzles; so I can't really judge how hard it really is for others, Doe's the clue make sense? I found it often doesn't to others, are these monsters too hard to easy? I knew they were coming and was prepared, I knew what to do. So it helps to get player feedback and hopefully this can help some too, given all the updates you've put out I know you want to make the best possible mod and I'd like to see it get made so if need anything else just ask and I'm happy to help
*The layout is great, non-linear. In my review I made it sound like I may of hated this, that was about having to look for items that I need for riddles that are way back in the dungeon because the non linear element makes this dungeon more fun to explore
*Magic, I like scribing scrolls since I can now use spells I coudn't otherwise use. Finding the scrolls is a good mechanic as well but with the spread of scrolls its a pain to have the 'Wrong' type of mage. I found fire spells last out of all the elements. What I would do is have a script at the start check the highest level elemental magic and give the mage a scroll in their inventory for that element, it makes sense story/lore wise since a trained mage is going to learn a spell at some point before going to a dangerous dungeon and it solves the problem of the mage being 'useless' until you find their scroll, I don't need a mage throwing stuff, I have a rogue for that. As for higher level spells fine with having them scattered about, it rewards the player to search if they want the better scrolls for other spells but I think they should start with something.
*Traps don't make so much sense in this as in EoB2, I know it had traps but you can disable/disarm them in EoB. And yes traps can work in grimrock, but a random fireball nailing me in the middle of a hallway? bad! Set a plate or leave a place to dodge or some clue or something so I can react to avoid the trap.
*Insta-Death. Ok if you had a pit like in the mines fine, I avoided these but others may react by jumping down them to see if theres anything down there (as the main game has conditioned them to do) so a note or something left by the mine foreman mentioning that these are death pits. As for things like the door that opens for the four water orbs, you clearly have a script that checks if the party is holding the things before teleporting them to avoid the death trap, so change it to only open the door like if item: party:getChampion: slot whatever is Water_orb then door_blah:open() else spawn:fireburst(party, x, y facing etc). That fixes it so the door punishes you for not having the orbs, doesn't kill you and force a reload and forces imported parties to actually find the orbs. Other wise remove death traps, I'm in the ice gardens now (because I like to finish what I start) and I stepped onto a random square and died, from full health my lvl 20 party was randomly killed and that trap served zero purpose, if you had to have it mark the locations where I can/can't walk and frostburst me, it suits the setting and not left standing there going "WHAT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF".
*Warnings, I walked into the res chamber see the life crystal and right in front of me a treasure! so I grab it and BAM! most of my party dies, theres a note to one side warning me that the room is trapped, but the flow of the room means I ( and I'll assume most players) will trigger the trap before they read the note. The layout of the room needs to be changed move the altar so I get the note first and then the trap is my fault, rather than a what the hell moment.
*Hints, like I said in the review I like most of the puzzles but some were trial and error and that was bad, it takes no skill or thought to solve these its just luck to guess, provide a clue or hint (like those riddles! they were good), I'm talking about the pressure plate puzzle in the prison wallset area (can't remember names) I read on the forums it is susposed to be and X (I solved it by placing rocks on all the plates and it opened so maybe thats a bug) so for an X maybe a clue like "like the atlas treasure marked" (X marks the spot). But this comes up in other spots too, like beating the two high priests in the mine area/ high priest room I just guessed that I needed something on the altar and whacked on random stuff from the treasure room until the portal opened (after wall scanning to find a secret button for the same purpose) need a clue here to speed things up. Lastly I come to the room with the weights (four alcoves put a certain weight on them to open the door) I just guessed that it was weight here after trying other things and because I've seen this used in other mods, some players may not be aware of such a thing and have troubles (skipping over this room) add something like "weigh your choices well" to hint at this. Oh and the feed me thing, make him say "I have rich tastes" or something when a non coin is put in place so the player isn't just randomly guessing what it might want.
*Backtracking, I don't mind revisiting part of the dungeon to get into new areas and the like as I said, I don't like having to wander around looking at the floor to find item X because I didn't think it was important and now I need it. So you need to slip in the items nearby so I don't have to go far, a good way might be to put in 'easy' secrets, namely a secret that is obvious so the player will find it and the item but not go "hey why is this here? I must need it!". Another point to raise is that face that eats items and gives you rocks, I did need the rocks for the son of the boulder door but that can still eat anything it seems and that includes quest items and the like that I NEED, so just get rid of that thing! scatter so rocks about the floor of the dungeon, rocks are always good to have for puzzles and pressure plates so its not odd to find them about and the player should be able to put boulders son together quickly enough that the rocks around the place won't ruin the riddle (it was kinda easy and the rocks would be spread across all the floors and rooms anyway). The last thing to say about backtracking is that doors close and prevent me getting back into areas if I missed something I needed (like the key I mentioned) really I should be able to get back to any section of the dungeon I need to visit. And about that key, I wandered past it since its in a hallway and not a room so I was going for the teleporter and missed it, I know this one is all my own fault for rushing but if I did it others will too, so maybe expand the hallway into a room, if its a room the player will stop and look around and is less likely to repeat my mistake.
*Combat. It ranges from standard grimrock combat which is fine, to hordes and traps. Grimrock combat is all about movement so trapping a player is never a good solution if anything getting force cornered isn't as challenge, since it requires less from the player, they just stand there and click attack and maybe use a potion. I said in the video that the ideal combat encounter (for me) is a 3x3 room (I said 9x9 by accident I know) the player has restricted space to move and has to watch both the monsters in order to avoid being cornered, in this way the combat is difficult and challenging, the ideal situation where the better the player the better they do (and its less of a frustration) In these cases the player can see it was their error that trapped and killed them and so they can try again without feeling it to be a grind or unfair. I addition you can change it up by changing the monsters in the place (two melee, one melee one ranged or a melee and an ogre) or if you want to really do something interesting try the monster I call the Corruptor, its a reskined big herder that has an onMove hook
Code: Select all
onMove=function(monster)
death_test.spawnCloud(monster)
end
Code: Select all
function spawnCloud(monster)
spawn("poison_cloud", monster.level, monster.x, monster.y, monster.facing)
endAnyway the thing with combat is your player should feel that any failure is because they should of done this or that rather than you forced them into a corner and beat the crap out of them.
Ultimately I know this is a remake and so has to be faithful to the source, but you should look at the dungeon and ask why is this here? do I need this? How is making my dungeon better and could I improve it? I know that can be hard, I've made many mistakes with my own dungeons and as the creator you see things differently from the player and it makes it harder to judge how a player will react to the dungeon. I always run into the problem with difficulty when making a dungeon, I know where all the good items are, where all the monsters and traps are and the answer to all the puzzles; so I can't really judge how hard it really is for others, Doe's the clue make sense? I found it often doesn't to others, are these monsters too hard to easy? I knew they were coming and was prepared, I knew what to do. So it helps to get player feedback and hopefully this can help some too, given all the updates you've put out I know you want to make the best possible mod and I'd like to see it get made so if need anything else just ask and I'm happy to help
My Dungeons
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
Hey man, at first let me really thanks for this comment ! I already received sooo many ideas what to improve etc... since this dungeon was released and hit helped me improve it a lot ! I think almost all what you have mentioend was mentioned before, but still let me react for some what you have written hereLocalFire wrote:Ok so I've played and posted my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sccP0_e ... ure=gp-n-y
Now for further notes to elaborate on what I liked and disliked and how I'd change things. Obviously this is just my opinion so yeah take it as it is or parts or whatever
*Magic, I like scribing scrolls....
actually I reworked scroll distribution few times and I do not think further changes will be made. I tried provide player scrolls according to the dungeon difficulty / progress. I agree that in the first "Mine" dungeon mage will be just thrower, but soon you have acess for all the basic damaging spells. Also thanks to the scribing scroll option, you can later write required scroll of protection from different elements and you do not need particular magic school. Fireball scroll is last to be found because I wanted avoid situation where you can "cheat" game a little, if making fire mage and investing all point to fire magic, fireball is just too powerfull in my oppinion. Also thanks to the scroll learning system this dungeon cannot be cheated by playing high level party and smashing monsters with spells from begining, so mage will be still quite "useless" at the begining which is in my oppinion correct, because I wanted mage to shine later in the game. System with some kind of scripting scroll distribution sounds like nice idea but to be honest I do not have enough scripting skills and also this sounds quite time consuming to do. So as the magic system is working quite good I am not going to change it.
*Traps
Agree, I know there are some places where random fireball smash your party to pieces or even worse things happen. You just wrote - bad. But... actually if you think about it it is really so bad ? If party would be in enemy castle and there should be fireball trap, is on the wall supposed to be sign - "Beware, fireball trap !" ?
Nope ! Dungeon creator want KILL the intruder, smashing it to pieces. For the first time at least. Yes - from player view this is frustrating a little (more ?), but actually there is NOT so many of these suprises so I am not going to remove it.
*Insta-Death.
Thats something another. I agree completely. Already removed some, I know it is really annoying for the player and perhaps more clues shuld be provided.I will rework some of these in the future, curently I am aware of about three or four insta death places remaining . Still, if you push button where is said: push this and you will die - and you die when you push it, its quite logic isn it ?
About the Frost tower instadeath- if you watch the environment you wil know which path to go altough again - more clues should be provided, I agree.
*Warnings, I walked into the res chamber see the life crystal and right in front of me a treasure! so I grab it and BAM! most of my party dies, theres a note to one side warning me that the room is trapped, but the flow of the room means I ( and I'll assume most players) will trigger the trap before they read the note. The layout of the room needs to be changed move the altar so I get the note first and then the trap is my fault, rather than a what the hell moment.
actually first thing when you enter the Temple is that thievery is prohibited or something like that. So you want steal that treasure ? Really ?
btw: there is way how to steal the chalice and not to be killed. *Hints, like I said in the review I like most of the puzzles but some were trial and error and that was bad, it takes no skill or thought to solve these its just luck to guess, provide a clue or hint (like those riddles! they were good), I'm talking about the pressure plate puzzle in the prison wallset area (can't remember names) I read on the forums it is susposed to be and X (I solved it by placing rocks on all the plates and it opened so maybe thats a bug) so for an X maybe a clue like "like the atlas treasure marked" (X marks the spot). But this comes up in other spots too, like beating the two high priests in the mine area/ high priest room I just guessed that I needed something on the altar and whacked on random stuff from the treasure room until the portal opened (after wall scanning to find a secret button for the same purpose) need a clue here to speed things up. Lastly I come to the room with the weights (four alcoves put a certain weight on them to open the door) I just guessed that it was weight here after trying other things and because I've seen this used in other mods, some players may not be aware of such a thing and have troubles (skipping over this room) add something like "weigh your choices well" to hint at this. Oh and the feed me thing, make him say "I have rich tastes" or something when a non coin is put in place so the player isn't just randomly guessing what it might want.
some nice points you have here, thanks ! definitely will change some hints a little (I have rich tastes is briliant !
Generaly I tried to make some harder puzzles NOT mandatory (for example weight puzzle), so player will be not stucked, because for myself is nothing worse that to be stuckes with some puzzle somewhere. And I understand that some puzzles should have more clues.As about the trial and error - isnt it in every other grimrock dungeon where you need to insert something somewhere and you do not know the answer ?
combat / backtracking
I agree less / more with some points here, definitely you have mentioned some nice points here. My problem is, that I am currently quite happy with overall looking / progress of the dungeon as whole regarding difficulty / combat. Yes I will probably remove insta-death places and make some slightly changes there and there, give some clues to the players etc.. but... I wanted to make dungeon which will remind players of old RPG games, which were REALLY challenging. Dungeon where you probably give up when playing first time and than you will restart from begining, make different choices, knowing where to go, what to do and progress further. Dungeon where you will repeat some combats several times until suceed, because trust me - every situation / battle in this dungeon could be solved quite easily if you are prepared, cast correct spell or use correct item. Myself I finished this dungeon on HARD mode with new party within 5 hours. I do not expect other players to do so. Thats why I even understand if you play this mode with high level party, altough I think you will miss lots of fun. That furstrating kind of fun
Becausein some situations where you see frustration and depression I see "real" challenge. And I understand that not every player have the same point of view so I am really OK with that you do not enjoy 100% this dungeon because of some nasty places, because I know there are many players which will. Still I wanna thank you once again for all the tips I will definitely change some things and will credit you in the ending sequence as well !
Hope you will finish this mod and let me difinitely know how you liked the ending
[/quote]
-
Dr.Disaster
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
You sure know this HHGTTG saying: "Always know where your towel is."LocalFire wrote:Ok so I've played and posted my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sccP0_e ... ure=gp-n-y
Now for further notes to elaborate on what I liked and disliked and how I'd change things. Obviously this is just my opinion so yeah take it as it is or parts or whatever
SpoilerShow*This is one of the best looking mods out there, straight up nothing else I've played comes close, I've only seen screenshots for labyrinth of lies and that looks to be the only competition
*The layout is great, non-linear. In my review I made it sound like I may of hated this, that was about having to look for items that I need for riddles that are way back in the dungeon because the non linear element makes this dungeon more fun to explore
*Magic, I like scribing scrolls since I can now use spells I coudn't otherwise use. Finding the scrolls is a good mechanic as well but with the spread of scrolls its a pain to have the 'Wrong' type of mage. I found fire spells last out of all the elements. What I would do is have a script at the start check the highest level elemental magic and give the mage a scroll in their inventory for that element, it makes sense story/lore wise since a trained mage is going to learn a spell at some point before going to a dangerous dungeon and it solves the problem of the mage being 'useless' until you find their scroll, I don't need a mage throwing stuff, I have a rogue for that. As for higher level spells fine with having them scattered about, it rewards the player to search if they want the better scrolls for other spells but I think they should start with something.
*Traps don't make so much sense in this as in EoB2, I know it had traps but you can disable/disarm them in EoB. And yes traps can work in grimrock, but a random fireball nailing me in the middle of a hallway? bad! Set a plate or leave a place to dodge or some clue or something so I can react to avoid the trap.
*Insta-Death. Ok if you had a pit like in the mines fine, I avoided these but others may react by jumping down them to see if theres anything down there (as the main game has conditioned them to do) so a note or something left by the mine foreman mentioning that these are death pits. As for things like the door that opens for the four water orbs, you clearly have a script that checks if the party is holding the things before teleporting them to avoid the death trap, so change it to only open the door like if item: party:getChampion: slot whatever is Water_orb then door_blah:open() else spawn:fireburst(party, x, y facing etc). That fixes it so the door punishes you for not having the orbs, doesn't kill you and force a reload and forces imported parties to actually find the orbs. Other wise remove death traps, I'm in the ice gardens now (because I like to finish what I start) and I stepped onto a random square and died, from full health my lvl 20 party was randomly killed and that trap served zero purpose, if you had to have it mark the locations where I can/can't walk and frostburst me, it suits the setting and not left standing there going "WHAT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF".
*Warnings, I walked into the res chamber see the life crystal and right in front of me a treasure! so I grab it and BAM! most of my party dies, theres a note to one side warning me that the room is trapped, but the flow of the room means I ( and I'll assume most players) will trigger the trap before they read the note. The layout of the room needs to be changed move the altar so I get the note first and then the trap is my fault, rather than a what the hell moment.
*Hints, like I said in the review I like most of the puzzles but some were trial and error and that was bad, it takes no skill or thought to solve these its just luck to guess, provide a clue or hint (like those riddles! they were good), I'm talking about the pressure plate puzzle in the prison wallset area (can't remember names) I read on the forums it is susposed to be and X (I solved it by placing rocks on all the plates and it opened so maybe thats a bug) so for an X maybe a clue like "like the atlas treasure marked" (X marks the spot). But this comes up in other spots too, like beating the two high priests in the mine area/ high priest room I just guessed that I needed something on the altar and whacked on random stuff from the treasure room until the portal opened (after wall scanning to find a secret button for the same purpose) need a clue here to speed things up. Lastly I come to the room with the weights (four alcoves put a certain weight on them to open the door) I just guessed that it was weight here after trying other things and because I've seen this used in other mods, some players may not be aware of such a thing and have troubles (skipping over this room) add something like "weigh your choices well" to hint at this. Oh and the feed me thing, make him say "I have rich tastes" or something when a non coin is put in place so the player isn't just randomly guessing what it might want.
*Backtracking, I don't mind revisiting part of the dungeon to get into new areas and the like as I said, I don't like having to wander around looking at the floor to find item X because I didn't think it was important and now I need it. So you need to slip in the items nearby so I don't have to go far, a good way might be to put in 'easy' secrets, namely a secret that is obvious so the player will find it and the item but not go "hey why is this here? I must need it!". Another point to raise is that face that eats items and gives you rocks, I did need the rocks for the son of the boulder door but that can still eat anything it seems and that includes quest items and the like that I NEED, so just get rid of that thing! scatter so rocks about the floor of the dungeon, rocks are always good to have for puzzles and pressure plates so its not odd to find them about and the player should be able to put boulders son together quickly enough that the rocks around the place won't ruin the riddle (it was kinda easy and the rocks would be spread across all the floors and rooms anyway). The last thing to say about backtracking is that doors close and prevent me getting back into areas if I missed something I needed (like the key I mentioned) really I should be able to get back to any section of the dungeon I need to visit. And about that key, I wandered past it since its in a hallway and not a room so I was going for the teleporter and missed it, I know this one is all my own fault for rushing but if I did it others will too, so maybe expand the hallway into a room, if its a room the player will stop and look around and is less likely to repeat my mistake.
*Combat. It ranges from standard grimrock combat which is fine, to hordes and traps. Grimrock combat is all about movement so trapping a player is never a good solution if anything getting force cornered isn't as challenge, since it requires less from the player, they just stand there and click attack and maybe use a potion. I said in the video that the ideal combat encounter (for me) is a 3x3 room (I said 9x9 by accident I know) the player has restricted space to move and has to watch both the monsters in order to avoid being cornered, in this way the combat is difficult and challenging, the ideal situation where the better the player the better they do (and its less of a frustration) In these cases the player can see it was their error that trapped and killed them and so they can try again without feeling it to be a grind or unfair. I addition you can change it up by changing the monsters in the place (two melee, one melee one ranged or a melee and an ogre) or if you want to really do something interesting try the monster I call the Corruptor, its a reskined big herder that has an onMove hookCalling the script entityCode: Select all
onMove=function(monster) death_test.spawnCloud(monster) endThis means you have a big herder that can trail poison behind it, you have to move around to avoid its poison cloud attacks and be careful of how it moves or risk filling the room with poison!Code: Select all
function spawnCloud(monster) spawn("poison_cloud", monster.level, monster.x, monster.y, monster.facing) end
Anyway the thing with combat is your player should feel that any failure is because they should of done this or that rather than you forced them into a corner and beat the crap out of them.
Ultimately I know this is a remake and so has to be faithful to the source, but you should look at the dungeon and ask why is this here? do I need this? How is making my dungeon better and could I improve it? I know that can be hard, I've made many mistakes with my own dungeons and as the creator you see things differently from the player and it makes it harder to judge how a player will react to the dungeon. I always run into the problem with difficulty when making a dungeon, I know where all the good items are, where all the monsters and traps are and the answer to all the puzzles; so I can't really judge how hard it really is for others, Doe's the clue make sense? I found it often doesn't to others, are these monsters too hard to easy? I knew they were coming and was prepared, I knew what to do. So it helps to get player feedback and hopefully this can help some too, given all the updates you've put out I know you want to make the best possible mod and I'd like to see it get made so if need anything else just ask and I'm happy to help
With and after Dungeon Master this saying got adopted by any dungeon crawler: "Always know where your rock is (or rocks are)."
When you follow it that item eating rock producing head will stay hungry.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
True :d but still I think LocalFire made valid note here, that hungry mouth should not accept "quest items". On the other side I suppose from player to save the game before trying to do something which is not recomended by the gameDr.Disaster wrote: You sure know this HHGTTG saying: "Always know where your towel is."
With and after Dungeon Master this saying got adopted by any dungeon crawler: "Always know where your rock is (or rocks are)."
When you follow it that item eating rock producing head will stay hungry.
)Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
I can see what you mean with the spells and it doe's work as intended so no changes are needed at all really. As for the don't steal thing I didn't actually see that so my bad!
Now as for the instant death button press, I still think that punishing the party with a less powerful blow is better (and making it so the door doesn't open if they survive) it still teaches them that when you say don't touch you mean it and it prevents high level imports from skipping the basement levels. It doe's work as it is though but it would still be a good idea to make it so the door only opens when the party has 4 water orbs, whatever script is used to avoid the trap when they have the orbs could be adjusted to open the door instead thus you can't skip with a OP party
And true Grimrock doe's have puzzles where you place items without knowing what goes there, but it provides a clue. Trial and error can work but I find it annoying since it just acts as a roadblock rather than a challenge or a puzzle, as for the face and rock thing I did mean to pick up my rocks but I forgot the things I swear I was going to get them! Yes the dungeon doe's warn me not to but I have to see why! admittedly I guess I should save first.
Lastly the combat I get what you mean and it can work I did say I played a good chunk with a starting party, I changed to a high level group not because the combat was hard but because it was a chore. If anything (this is just my opinion) the combat is easier for the lack of my ability to move, I don't need to think, hell I don't even need both hands! once I got the idea I just make sure I have a speed potion and sulfur potion with me then I lean back and click attack, yeah I take more damage but the effort involved is minimal, that to me is where challenge comes from not from being hard but from being involved and requiring effort on my part, the more I am required to do, to think and to act the more the challenge, thats the main reason I don't like the combat and why I imported a party so I could get through it faster. Obviously you and many others have different tastes in that and I respect that, I read the posts here and most of the people here seemed to enjoy the set up and in the end thats what matters making the mod that the most people will enjoy and it seems you may very well be on your way to such a thing!
Oh and I do plan on finishing, hopefully I don't tand on anymore death squares
Now as for the instant death button press, I still think that punishing the party with a less powerful blow is better (and making it so the door doesn't open if they survive) it still teaches them that when you say don't touch you mean it and it prevents high level imports from skipping the basement levels. It doe's work as it is though but it would still be a good idea to make it so the door only opens when the party has 4 water orbs, whatever script is used to avoid the trap when they have the orbs could be adjusted to open the door instead thus you can't skip with a OP party
And true Grimrock doe's have puzzles where you place items without knowing what goes there, but it provides a clue. Trial and error can work but I find it annoying since it just acts as a roadblock rather than a challenge or a puzzle, as for the face and rock thing I did mean to pick up my rocks but I forgot the things I swear I was going to get them! Yes the dungeon doe's warn me not to but I have to see why! admittedly I guess I should save first.
Lastly the combat I get what you mean and it can work I did say I played a good chunk with a starting party, I changed to a high level group not because the combat was hard but because it was a chore. If anything (this is just my opinion) the combat is easier for the lack of my ability to move, I don't need to think, hell I don't even need both hands! once I got the idea I just make sure I have a speed potion and sulfur potion with me then I lean back and click attack, yeah I take more damage but the effort involved is minimal, that to me is where challenge comes from not from being hard but from being involved and requiring effort on my part, the more I am required to do, to think and to act the more the challenge, thats the main reason I don't like the combat and why I imported a party so I could get through it faster. Obviously you and many others have different tastes in that and I respect that, I read the posts here and most of the people here seemed to enjoy the set up and in the end thats what matters making the mod that the most people will enjoy and it seems you may very well be on your way to such a thing!
Oh and I do plan on finishing, hopefully I don't tand on anymore death squares
My Dungeons
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
So continuing I've noticed you still have quite a few puzzles that rely on insta-death (i missed the stay on the path hint in the ice garden) and the sound of the dead puzzle makes sense to kill the party I guess but it doe's get annoying to have to reload because of it so:
I haven't actually tested this but the idea is it would check if party member one has more than 10 percent health and then drop him to 1 hp if he does and if hes under 10% it will kill him (obviously need to repeat for the rest of the party). I feel like this will punish your players without forcing a reload, they still have to take care as if they make one mistake BAM! two mistakes DEAD! so they get a warning/chance in the event they weren't paying attention and the dungeon retains it difficulty, what do you think?
Code: Select all
local percentage_health_1 = party:getChampion(1):getStat("health") / party:getChampion(1):getStatMax("health") * 100
if percentage_health_1 > 10 then
party:getChampion(1):setStat(health, 1)
else
party:getChampion(1):setStat(health, 0) My Dungeons
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
Paths of the Earth: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5136
Beneath the Sands: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5216
Videos: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5443
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The Doppelgamer
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:20 am
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
I was just about to start playing this, but I have a question before I make my party. Are there any skulls in Eye of the Dragon? I wanted to make a Minotaur with the Head Hunter trait.
Check out my LoG2 Atlas Compendium (All Secrets, Treasures, Items, Equipment, Zones/Maps, & More!)
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Also check out my LoG2 Icon
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Dr.Disaster
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon
There are skulls in this mod but i can't recall how many.Mystina Valeth wrote:I was just about to start playing this, but I have a question before I make my party. Are there any skulls in Eye of the Dragon? I wanted to make a Minotaur with the Head Hunter trait.