Spell ideas

[badhabit]

is rune system like LOG1 be used again ? I personally hope there will be some improvements in magic system and not just making rune table larger (although even this could be fine)
I propose scroll-learning system, or make some spells more dependent on some stats (like you can cast fireball from certain level etc...) --- I really hated to start with new character, invest all points to fire magic and start fireballing monsters from level 3, it was almost like cheating...

In a way I agree and disagree with Drakkan
Maybe there's some sort of middle ground that can be achieved?
Perhaps if the game doesn't start off with the players having no belongings, a spell caster will start off with a spell book with only some spells in it (perhaps a random selection of low level and a couple high level to work towards.) And scrolls could be written into the spell book later.

spelbook sounds like a great idea for me in case you want spellcaster class like wizards in D&D (or sorceror, not sure which one it was). That way you can choose at the start of the game few spells which you want to write in (available from all low level spells) and as you gaining levels, you can always choose some spells to write in. No a bad approach definitely. I am quite curious with what LOG wil come with, as they know, that many players was complaining about this.

I never understand my people prefer the limited & cheap feeling DD spellbook/scroll system... I hated it with passion (EOB) after I was in contact with the more flexible and much more harmonic into rest of mechanics integrating rune based magic system of DM (not overpowered as balanced by sequential usage ... also the weaving aspect feels right for a magic system. The plain "click" on a memorized spell system of DD feels wrong and overpowered... and the counter-balancing by limited memorize slots... *nahhh*..bah*).

But at the same time I hope that the runes aren't gone. I really enjoyed the system, but the 3x3 square has limitations in number of spells cast-able.
I'm looking forward to any peaks at the LoG2 magic system.

+1 (take the DM rune system...copy the best )

[JohnWordsworth]

I love the rune spell-casting system but also agree that 'more runes' would be nice. I don't think the problem is too much with 'number of spells cast-able' (9+36+84+126=255 combinations if spells are only up to 4 symbols big), but with the logic of the runes involved. I like that spells 'make sense' in the terms of what runes make up the spell. Ideas for combating this...

Suggestions for Casting System 'Upgrades'

1. DM Like progressive runes - I like the idea of a Dungeon Master-esque progressive rune system. It makes me think also of a Pathfinder RPG Word-Caster. For instance, rune 1 is the 'element' rune, rune 2 is the 'shaping' rune, rune 3 could be a 'second element' rune and 4 could be a 'modifier' rune. More powerful spells would require more runes - which in turn means that you are less likely to stumble upon them randomly without the scroll and they are slower to cast (win, win for flavour) [Note: Assuming a 3x3 grid still, the total combinations of spells up to length 4 in this system is 9+81+729+6561=7380].

2. A 3x3 Grid where order matters - Stick with the single 3x3 grid of runes but have the order in which you enter the runes matter. The runes could light up differently depending on whether it's the first, second or third in your sequence for instance. This makes the total number of possible combinations for spells up to 4 runes go from 255 to (9+72+504+3024=3609). I think also, flavour wise, it sits nicely as an 'upgrade' from LOG1 to LOG2 and also gives you the ability to 'logically' construct spells (a meteor spell for instance, would primarily be rock but secondarily fire).

Both are pretty similar, and I think would be a nice upgrade to the LOG1 magic system. While I like the system in the first, if you are doubling the number of spells that doesn't leave many logical combinations for new little spells in mods - which I know can't be a major deciding factor in your game design, but I think the above system have other advantages too.

Scrolls Idea. Hmm, not sure where I stand on this. I like the fact you can cast spells without finding the scroll, but you're right in the fact that it means you can just min-max a spell-stat and then blast fireballs around early on in the game. Maybe when you find a scroll you increase the damage/duration/power of that spell. Obviously, the spells would be designed to work at effectively 'half-power' until you find the scroll, so the increase would take them up to 'regular' power, but you wouldn't sell it that way in the game (you would sell it as 'Enhanced Fireball' or something). The logic behind this is that the scrolls contain the secrets to mastering the spell, instead of just throwing some runes together. The downside of this system is that it's not as simple as just unlocking spells.

[Neikun]

A few months back, the LotNR project were having talks about what we'd like to see in the next magic system.
I was really rooting for Rune Tables as Items
What this would mean is, a mage would have his basic 3x3 rune table, but would also be able to acquire other 3x3 rune tables, capable of casting a whole new combination of spells. (They could also include in the description; a list of spells known from that particular rune table)
Furthermore, another feature that could be explorable, is using two rune tables at once so you would use runes from both tables to cast really awesome spells.

[uggardian]

2. A 3x3 Grid where order matters - Stick with the single 3x3 grid of runes but have the order in which you enter the runes matter. The runes could light up differently depending on whether it's the first, second or third in your sequence for instance. This makes the total number of possible combinations for spells up to 4 runes go from 255 to (9+72+504+3024=3609). I think also, flavour wise, it sits nicely as an 'upgrade' from LOG1 to LOG2 and also gives you the ability to 'logically' construct spells (a meteor spell for instance, would primarily be rock but secondarily fire).

+ 1 for that suggestion. And it also adds possibilities for upgraded spells. For example a firespell would be (in this order) fire + air + physicality. The upgraded version could be like fire + fire + air + physicality + balance. As you noticed, it would be interesting to be able to use same runes multiple times. It makes it harder to guess and remember spells. Of course, some spells should still be shorter and easier combinations.

Edit: Has anyone played Magicka? Even it had lots of bugs and balancing issues (in my opinion) the spell system was interesting.

[uggardian]

And one of the things I loved in Dungeon Master's spell system was the chance to fail in casting the spell. Maybe the same element would be in LoG2 too? Like you would need level 15 in fire magic to master (chance to succeed 100%) the fireball spell, but you could cast it earlier, on level 1 it would be almost impossible, level 5 the chances would be around 25%, level 10 around 50%, 13 around 80% and so on.. Failing to cast a spell in the middle of a fight would cause some really hectic moments..

Or maybe something on the lines of what John said earlier:

Scrolls Idea. Hmm, not sure where I stand on this. I like the fact you can cast spells without finding the scroll, but you're right in the fact that it means you can just min-max a spell-stat and then blast fireballs around early on in the game. Maybe when you find a scroll you increase the damage/duration/power of that spell. Obviously, the spells would be designed to work at effectively 'half-power' until you find the scroll, so the increase would take them up to 'regular' power, but you wouldn't sell it that way in the game (you would sell it as 'Enhanced Fireball' or something). The logic behind this is that the scrolls contain the secrets to mastering the spell, instead of just throwing some runes together. The downside of this system is that it's not as simple as just unlocking spells.

If you could by yourself learn the spell to be 90% mastered or so, and the rest 10% comes from reading the scroll..

[Asteroth]

I really would not want a spell failure chance. My shattered laptop would quickly go out the window in rage after the 8th f%^&ing failure in a row.