Analysis of Grimrock

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
Raggie
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by Raggie » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:16 am

ExodusC wrote:As OP's post pointed out, there are so many more Swords in the dungeon compared to Maces/Axes, and the Sword skill tree is just... better.
i've started to prefer swords in all RPGs, because they do seem to get more attention in most. There are always good swords, not haldbergs etc.

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Merethif
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by Merethif » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:00 pm

ExodusC wrote:As OP's post pointed out, there are so many more Swords in the dungeon compared to Maces/Axes, and the Sword skill tree is just... better. Even my Lizardman in the back with a dagger was pumping out damage, because my Human and Minotaur could never hit anything.
I may agree with you on most issues you've mentioned, but please do not spread false statements.
As you can see in table below, there are NO MANY MORE swords then maces/axes. There is actually one more mace then sword. And ONLY one more sword then axe/dagger.
Yes, there is also Fire Blade, but it's rather wand then a sword. Even if you treat the used Fire Blade as a sword, there's still the SAME number of swords as maces. Not a single one more.

quality..........sword.................axe................mace.................dagger

low..............Machete..............Hand Axe.........Cudgel................Knife
medium.........Longsword...........Battle Axe........Knoffer Mace........Dagger
hight............Cutlass....................................Warhammer.........Fist Dagger
..............................................................Ogre Hammer
very high........Sword of Nex........Norja..............Flail
legendary.......The Dismantler......Ancient Axe......Icefall Hammer......Assasin's Dagger

I don't mind different opinions and I know that personal points of view may vary, but if there's word "Analysis" in subject, I'd expect number-based facts.

ExodusC
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by ExodusC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:27 am

Merethif wrote:
ExodusC wrote:As OP's post pointed out, there are so many more Swords in the dungeon compared to Maces/Axes, and the Sword skill tree is just... better. Even my Lizardman in the back with a dagger was pumping out damage, because my Human and Minotaur could never hit anything.
I may agree with you on most issues you've mentioned, but please do not spread false statements.
As you can see in table below, there are NO MANY MORE swords then maces/axes. There is actually one more mace then sword. And ONLY one more sword then axe/dagger.
Yes, there is also Fire Blade, but it's rather wand then a sword. Even if you treat the used Fire Blade as a sword, there's still the SAME number of swords as maces. Not a single one more.

quality..........sword.................axe................mace.................dagger

low..............Machete..............Hand Axe.........Cudgel................Knife
medium.........Longsword...........Battle Axe........Knoffer Mace........Dagger
hight............Cutlass....................................Warhammer.........Fist Dagger
..............................................................Ogre Hammer
very high........Sword of Nex........Norja..............Flail
legendary.......The Dismantler......Ancient Axe......Icefall Hammer......Assasin's Dagger

I don't mind different opinions and I know that personal points of view may vary, but if there's word "Analysis" in subject, I'd expect number-based facts.
Sorry, but that information wasn't stated in the OP or any subsequent posts.

Regardless, if you want to look at it from a different perspective, it seems everyone agrees that Swords outclasses both Axes and Maces. Additionally, the best sword in the game is available significantly earlier than the Ancient Axe. I didn't find the Icefall Hammer in my playthrough, but the Ancient Axe and Assassin's Dagger seem like you could miss them, whereas The Dismantler has an obviously notated area where it can be found, even if it does require puzzle solving. I don't recall getting the Ancient Axe until right near the end, but I had the (useless to my party) Dismantler for a long time.

Most of the Swords just seemed pretty obviously placed, and you seemed to get them early.

Not to mention some of the Maces, like the Ogre Hammer are nearly useless due to the massive weight and accuracy penalty.

Those are just my opinions, I'd say it's difficult to do anything other than a qualitative assessment of how available all of the weapons are.

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Merethif
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by Merethif » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:57 pm

ExodusC wrote: Regardless, if you want to look at it from a different perspective, it seems everyone agrees that Swords outclasses both Axes and Maces. Additionally, the best sword in the game is available significantly earlier than the Ancient Axe. I didn't find the Icefall Hammer in my playthrough, but the Ancient Axe and Assassin's Dagger seem like you could miss them, whereas The Dismantler has an obviously notated area where it can be found, even if it does require puzzle solving. I don't recall getting the Ancient Axe until right near the end, but I had the (useless to my party) Dismantler for a long time.

Most of the Swords just seemed pretty obviously placed, and you seemed to get them early.

Not to mention some of the Maces, like the Ogre Hammer are nearly useless due to the massive weight and accuracy penalty.

Those are just my opinions, I'd say it's difficult to do anything other than a qualitative assessment of how available all of the weapons are.
Ok, now you're talking my language ;-)
I agree about the somewhat unbalanced placement of swords (one have even whole level dedicated to it). But the fact is that somehow sword is the most "sexy" type of weapon. In most legends/stories you got magical swords, all those Excaliburs, Vorpal Swords, Glamdrings, Orcrists, Andúrils and their various clones (up to light sabres). In "Five-Man Band" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand) Leader usually is wielding a sword. Axes are for big guys. C'mon, even red power ranger has a sword! Main hero always have a sword. Stories are about swords... or retrieving swords or reforging broken swords.

Long story short. It's a very strong archetype I'm afraid, that's why even game designers build up stories about swords. The other weapons are less cared about.

Also I agree the Swords skill seems most useful with its Strength AND Dexterity bonuses, whiled Mace with Vitality bonuses is worst one.

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Xanathar
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by Xanathar » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:35 pm

Since this thread has been somewhat resurrected, a couple of my personal opinions:
  • I find Resist Fire to be much better than Resist Poison - I was fighting the last level and still dying by Uggardians fireballs more than anything else.
  • I noticed in the comment a lot of thoughts about poison which is just a major annoyance like disease - just rest and it goes away (no, you don't die while sleeping, unless you are very very low on HPs).
  • I find missile weapons better than analyzed here, with arrows+magic most enemies don't even get in melee range. Very powerful against single powerful monsters, but completely helpless against hordes however.
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ExodusC
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Re: Analysis of Grimrock

Post by ExodusC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:54 pm

Merethif wrote:
ExodusC wrote: Regardless, if you want to look at it from a different perspective, it seems everyone agrees that Swords outclasses both Axes and Maces. Additionally, the best sword in the game is available significantly earlier than the Ancient Axe. I didn't find the Icefall Hammer in my playthrough, but the Ancient Axe and Assassin's Dagger seem like you could miss them, whereas The Dismantler has an obviously notated area where it can be found, even if it does require puzzle solving. I don't recall getting the Ancient Axe until right near the end, but I had the (useless to my party) Dismantler for a long time.

Most of the Swords just seemed pretty obviously placed, and you seemed to get them early.

Not to mention some of the Maces, like the Ogre Hammer are nearly useless due to the massive weight and accuracy penalty.

Those are just my opinions, I'd say it's difficult to do anything other than a qualitative assessment of how available all of the weapons are.
Ok, now you're talking my language ;-)
I agree about the somewhat unbalanced placement of swords (one have even whole level dedicated to it). But the fact is that somehow sword is the most "sexy" type of weapon. In most legends/stories you got magical swords, all those Excaliburs, Vorpal Swords, Glamdrings, Orcrists, Andúrils and their various clones (up to light sabres). In "Five-Man Band" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand) Leader usually is wielding a sword. Axes are for big guys. C'mon, even red power ranger has a sword! Main hero always have a sword. Stories are about swords... or retrieving swords or reforging broken swords.

Long story short. It's a very strong archetype I'm afraid, that's why even game designers build up stories about swords. The other weapons are less cared about.

Also I agree the Swords skill seems most useful with its Strength AND Dexterity bonuses, whiled Mace with Vitality bonuses is worst one.
Maybe it's my fault for not picking Swords, even though my intuition told me before I started playing that there would probably be some bias towards Swords, as in most games.

Unfortunately I thought Grimrock might be different... and of course I picked Maces for my "main" character!

I think this thread has tons of useful info, and the thing is, on at least several issues the community here is pretty much in full agreement- and I think we also agree that much of it could be tweaked just by simple changes that would make things a little more balanced, so that you're not at a significant disadvantage just because you "picked the wrong weapon."

Anyways, even if this was Almost Human's intended way of having the game laid out, I do hope they read over this thread and at least take some of the ideas into consideration.

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