What's the connection between missile weapons and dexterity?

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Magic_Hotdog
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What's the connection between missile weapons and dexterity?

Post by Magic_Hotdog » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:38 pm

I see that the missile weapon skill gives lots of bonuses to dexterity but this doesn't benefit it at all. Dexterity improves accuracy and evasion, and neither of those are relevant to a party member who uses weapons that always hit and stands in the backrow. As things stand, Minotaur rogues with strength as the dump stat make the best archers...

Sheogorath
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Sheogorath » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:52 pm

Yeah. But even better is the minotaur thrower, as throwing improves strength which effect the damage output. :)

A front row archer with high evasion is quite effective (they say) but for the back row... Not so much in comparision to thrower imo.

I'd say it's quite likely that accuracy will be used for ranged weapons in coming updates or sequels. Almost seems like a bug the way things are now. Archery improves dex which is utterly useless for the skill itself.

Magic_Hotdog
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Magic_Hotdog » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:54 am

Except there aren't really any great throwing weapons. Throwing axes cap out at 15 attack and you don't find those until level 9~ish while the crossbow you find at the end of level 3 and has 20 attack. Not to mention you can't enchant rocks and ninja stars with elemental properties.

Which brings me to my next point: anyone else think the Crookhorn Bow isn't all that fantastic for the endgame missile weapon? It's not a whole lot faster than the crossbow and is actually 1 point weaker.

Also, thunder arrows should do more damage to the cube itself.

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Ixnatifual
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Ixnatifual » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:54 am

There's no connection between missile weapons and dexterity (in Grimrock). The primary stat of an archer is strength.

Sheogorath
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Sheogorath » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:01 pm

Magic_Hotdog wrote:Except there aren't really any great throwing weapons. Throwing axes cap out at 15 attack and you don't find those until level 9~ish while the crossbow you find at the end of level 3 and has 20 attack. Not to mention you can't enchant rocks and ninja stars with elemental properties.

Which brings me to my next point: anyone else think the Crookhorn Bow isn't all that fantastic for the endgame missile weapon? It's not a whole lot faster than the crossbow and is actually 1 point weaker.

Also, thunder arrows should do more damage to the cube itself.
A 30 str headhunting and aggressive minotaur throwing two axes at a time packs quite a punch... ;)

Give it a try. I'm not going back to archery! :D

\/4n!ll4 ][c3
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by \/4n!ll4 ][c3 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:22 am

if you want to use 2 archers, by all means, go for it. just know that you wont get a second bow until i think the 5th level. if i were to play the game differently, the only change i would make is rather than using an unarmed rogue, id probably opt for using a sword. but one thing i would definitely not change would be having one thrown user and one archer. the combination is nuts.

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Thels
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Thels » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:42 am

Magic_Hotdog wrote:As things stand, Minotaur rogues with strength as the dump stat make the best archers...
Actually, Missile/Throwing Weapons Rogues have 3 dump stats. Strength isn't one of them.

When rolling a Missile/Throwing Weapons Rogue, you max Strength, and the rest of your points can really go wherever. I've put them in Vitality for survivability against spells.

Sheogorath
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Sheogorath » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:44 am

I thought "dump stat" meant a stat where you dumped all available points? As you did: dump all points into strength: strength is the "dump stat"?

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Thels
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Thels » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:53 am

Oh, lol. That train of thought makes sense. It's however incorrect.

The "dump stat" term originates from pre-point buy systems. Games like D&D originally required you to roll 6 stats and then assign them to 6 ability scores (other systems might use more or less than 6 stats). You dumped the crappy rolls into the stats you weren't going to use, hence dump stat.

For balance reasons the rolling and assigning stats was slowly replaced by a point buy system, where you buy 6 scores based on points, and then assigned those 6 scores to the 6 abilities. The "dump stat" principle still applied.

For computer games and tabletop characters worked out in a computer application, the easiest way to visualize is to have the 6 scores (or 4, in the case of LoG) already linked to the 6 abilities (4 for LoG) as you spend points on them. Dump stat technically no longer makes sense, as most engines start on the lowest score for 0 points, and then allow you to add additional points (Pathfinder being a notable exception). But the term sticked as "The ability you don't bother assigning a good score to".

Sheogorath
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Re: What's the connection between missile weapons and dexter

Post by Sheogorath » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:54 am

Thels wrote:Oh, lol. That train of thought makes sense. It's however incorrect.

The "dump stat" term originates from pre-point buy systems. Games like D&D originally required you to roll 6 stats and then assign them to 6 ability scores (other systems might use more or less than 6 stats). You dumped the crappy rolls into the stats you weren't going to use, hence dump stat.

For balance reasons the rolling and assigning stats was slowly replaced by a point buy system, where you buy 6 scores based on points, and then assigned those 6 scores to the 6 abilities. The "dump stat" principle still applied.

For computer games and tabletop characters worked out in a computer application, the easiest way to visualize is to have the 6 scores (or 4, in the case of LoG) already linked to the 6 abilities (4 for LoG) as you spend points on them. Dump stat technically no longer makes sense, as most engines start on the lowest score for 0 points, and then allow you to add additional points (Pathfinder being a notable exception). But the term sticked as "The ability you don't bother assigning a good score to".
OK cool. To avoid confusion I think it's best to abandon the term. :)

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