A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DRM

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
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BlueLegion
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by BlueLegion » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:11 pm

As I use Steam as my main messenger and game library, I don't consider Steam to be DRM, myself. I bought from AlmostHuman though, because it offered a steam key before you could even purchase it on steam itself.

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Billick
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by Billick » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:25 pm

I don't really think of Steam as DRM, even though technically it is, since it's almost always transparent.
I loves my shiny Steam achievements. Even though I'm probably the only one who ever looks at them, they're still fun.
I love being able to look at all the games in my game library and say "Hmm... what shall I play today... I think I shall play some Legend of Grimrock!"
Steam has been a boon for indie developers. I've played many great indie games over the last year, and I've found out about all of them (including LoG) through Steam.
I trust Valve. Maybe that trust is misplaced, but I just do. I can't say that for other publishers *cough* EA *cough*.
If I had known about the extra goodies I would have bought it from AH, since it comes with a Steam key anyway.
Halls of Barrian - current version 1.0.3 - Steam Nexus
Me Grimrock no bozo!

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zalewapl
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by zalewapl » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:59 pm

I have also bought two copies of the game on Steam before I found out that its possible to buy it directly from developer. But, to be honest, Steam is so convenient I would probably buy it off there anyway. I have only two problems with Steam. First of all, it's difficult to share the same copy of the game with my father - something which (AFAIK) is not illegal where I live. The second problem is that while prices are in euro, my country is not in the euro zone and the currency rate makes this game not as cheap as for the people who pay directly with euro (probably). But Grimrock is still cheaper than most of the overpriced crap available in regular shops. The ratio of playabilty to price is so good towards the playability that I don't mind buying the extra copy anyway.

On DRMs:
The funny thing about DRMs is that to this day I have never seen a single game that was impossible to crack. DRMs only work for multiplayer games, but for such games simple CD-KEY checks would work just as fine as anything else. The worst type of DRM? You buy game XYZ with your hard earned money. Game XYZ installs with a nasty kind of DRM. DRM infests your computer but you don't care because hey, it's all legal, right? You try to launch the game XYZ but the DRM steps in and says "NO! We have detected virtual disc software in your system, you disgusting pirate! Ten years of hard labor for you!". Greatly annoyed, you remove offending program from your system, but the game doesn't run anyway. In the end you have to crack your legally bought copy of the game to be able to play it. What the hell?

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BlueLegion
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by BlueLegion » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:41 pm

zalewapl wrote:On DRMs:
The worst type of DRM? You buy game XYZ with your hard earned money. Game XYZ installs with a nasty kind of DRM. DRM infests your computer but you don't care because hey, it's all legal, right? You try to launch the game XYZ but the DRM steps in and says "NO! We have detected virtual disc software in your system, you disgusting pirate! Ten years of hard labor for you!". Greatly annoyed, you remove offending program from your system, but the game doesn't run anyway. In the end you have to crack your legally bought copy of the game to be able to play it. What the hell?
Starforce, eh?

umbrae
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by umbrae » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:12 pm

I hate DRM and tend to purchase games without it if I can. Steam, however, is one of those cases where convenience trumps DRM. Having a managed library that is always updated is a great benefit, and the DRM rarely gets in the way. Not true of boxed copy DRM and some other publishers and their online components.

DRM is bad only because it does nothing to prevent piracy and usually causes some harm to people that actually legally received it. Generally if DRM causes no interference I don't care. When I have been burned by Steam and DRM it was usually an extra requirement of the publisher not Valve. In LOG's case, I found it on Steam so I bought it on Steam. If I knew it was on GOG, I might have gotten it there; however, Steam would have probably still won out just because their library management is better.

seebs
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by seebs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:49 pm

rakenan wrote:Relatively few people object to DRM on general principles, IMHO. People object to DRM that screws up so they cannot play the game or otherwise gets in the way and makes the game worse.
I object to DRM because it is guaranteed to eventually do that. Also on principle. If I wanted to pay you extra money to increase the chances that I can't play your game, I'd just enclose a check in an envelope along with a note that says "random crashes during launch make games more fun!" You know, cut out the middle man.

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BlackSanguine
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by BlackSanguine » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:31 am

I work for a North American railroad. I travel a megaton load (I work on the track, not as a Conductor/Engineer) ... I don't always have an internet connection. I refuse to buy any games that have DRM. I was a huge Assassin's Creed fan (Murder, Whoohoo!) ... then I played AC2 ... or should I say, I installed it. Then I uninstalled it.

Thanks, Almost Human. I really appreciate the great game, DRM free.
No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each others' worth.

Gudadantza
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by Gudadantza » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:08 am

Nowadays we turn on our computer and we connect to internet without user management. Is Steam really a no DRM system?
The world tendence is for laptop mobility, less desktop functional users. But does It mean more connected people to internet? That is the idea, just that, an idea.

The rule should be a DRM free game industry,and if you want new features or better updates buy the stuff. The rest is their problem not mine.

Every DRM system the genious industry has gift us with has been a problem to the legal users and a simple task to pirate copies. On the majority of the cases the pirate copy has been less intrusive and simple to use than the original. From the CD check to the Starforce or the worst UBI system.

You do not have the draconians rights to let the user down because of your protection systems. And if you have them I will think about morality and philosophy.

So Steam is the less annoying DRM system I consider: Internet connection. But it is a DRM system. It is.

Another thng you must consider according to the OP is that on GOG this game was number one during days too. and GOG does not have DRM but the trade agreement a selling is.

So If on Steam LoG was number one,on GoG too.

Greetings

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sapientCrow
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by sapientCrow » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:28 am

People buying from Steam has nothing to do with DRM. The new generation of gamers will not even know the difference between non drm and drm versions. The reason people are buying from Steam is because of their advertising mechanisms. It is like someone said impulse buys like the candy at checkout.
I myself would of liked it not be on Steam at all. However Almost Human made some money off the deal so...
The future of Games and full proof DRM is when games almost entirely will be hosted on servers like online ones and all your computer will do is handle the info sends back and forth and graphics.
I loathe this day when it occurs but it is inevitable.
Ever since free share has been around the mainstream companies think lock and key approaches are the way to get money. If indie games had the ad and marketing base they would win without any drm with free share because more time and energy goes into development rather than lock and key security methods and tactics to bind consumers to merchandise.

I got a DVD recently and after removing 2 shrink wraps and 2 RFID tags then being forced to sit through FBI warnings it became quite clear why legit consumers turn to free share.
Anyway there are very different divergent paths to the future of gaming and I will be spending a lot more time energy and money on the indies in the future. Micro funding and micro purchases would win over as it is if they had the market base.

Gudadantza
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Re: A question to Devs regarding consumers' behaviour and DR

Post by Gudadantza » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:15 am

I ´d like to have the rights to sell a lot of old classics with the proper old package, from infocom to the last examples on the 90.

I´d like to know the sense on pirating a game yet pirated years ago considering that packaging...

Industry should think about what is selling and how... :)

Ok, Ok, that is far away from the indie industry but now I am speaking about the big league, the gurus and the dominant guys. :)

Greetings

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