2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
User avatar
pimpskinny
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:39 pm

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by pimpskinny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:25 pm

Strafing is a great homage to the old school, but I totally agree that it makes many character skills obsolete. What use is heavy armor if you just dance around like a ninja all the time? The heavy tank guys hardly ever get to prove their worth. They're great when you finally need them though, but I would imagine they're usually embarrassed in how we players force them to hit-and-run all the time.

I'm half-tempted to play on easy mode just so I can go toe-to-toe more often.

User avatar
Isaac
Posts: 3089
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Isaac » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:44 pm

I have no qualms about strafing where possible. The heavy armored characters can take the hits when they come (due to timing mistakes), but it's silly [IMO] to stand toe to toe (bash & be bashed) if you have the option to dodge. It's not about realistic events, it's about playing to the mechanics of the game. The only time I would not side step is if the way were blocked, trapped, or I had reason not to jump down a pit.

Question: Do any here advocate standing one's ground when an ogre charges the party?

User avatar
Encephalon
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:07 pm
Location: Norway

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Encephalon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:09 pm

Isaac wrote:Question: Do any here advocate standing one's ground when an ogre charges the party?
Common sense would dictate that you get out of the way (say, by strafing) and let the bullheaded ogre crash its skull into the rock wall. ;)

As for those who say strafedancing is a cheat, bug exploit and most certainly NOT intended by the developers; do you think the developers missed that possibility untill they had passed the point of no return regarding release, and silently hoping no player would notice? I've played through EotB I, II and III several times and strafing was a part of the survival skill. You certainly don't stand still when facing a basilisk or medusa that can turn one of your characters to stone instantly (and thus killing him), or fighting a beholder head on where your spellcasters are useless and all party members are in the crosshair for the beholder's spells.

I strafe a lot, and I don't consider it cheating or exploit in any way. However, there are far from all places where you can strafedance and your options for movement are severely limited (take the Vault of the Orb for instance). But I agree to that the enemies often lack a sense of determination as to which way to go (however, these have also been a lifesaver by giving me breating time to mix up a heal potion or two).
You know you're screwed when the light at the end of the hallway is an onrushing ogre wielding a torch.

Megami
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:47 pm
Location: the Czech republic

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Megami » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:58 pm

For me 2x2 is a clear example of an exploit. It allows you to kill any single mob without any HP loss, without any skill or tactics, no matter the party level. If this is not an exploit for you I don't know what is.
This thread is steadily growing and still no response from the dev team...
I wanted to do my second playthrough but I am postponing it until this issue is fixed and/or the modding tools are released so the community can create dungeons with such design that could at least partially alleviate the impact of 2x2 on the combat.

User avatar
Encephalon
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:07 pm
Location: Norway

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Encephalon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:09 pm

Megami wrote:For me 2x2 is a clear example of an exploit. It allows you to kill any single mob without any HP loss, without any skill or tactics, no matter the party level. If this is not an exploit for you I don't know what is.
Would you mind answering the question from Isaac just a few posts above? The tanks would have to be severely overpowered regarding defence if they should be able to hold their ground against an ogre, not to mention a warden. Besides, without strafing assassination would be next to pointless, even with the aid of Ice or Air magic.
This thread is steadily growing and still no response from the dev team...
As expected, as the strafing is not an exploit of the game mechanics but an integral part of how the game can, and quite possibly must, be played?
You know you're screwed when the light at the end of the hallway is an onrushing ogre wielding a torch.

User avatar
BlueLegion
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:14 pm
Contact:

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by BlueLegion » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:36 pm

Megami wrote:This thread is steadily growing and still no response from the dev team...
I wanted to do my second playthrough but I am postponing it until this issue is fixed and/or the modding tools are released so the community can create dungeons with such design that could at least partially alleviate the impact of 2x2 on the combat.
The devs don't respond because they don't need to. The system is working as intended. Yes, it's intended. Look at EotB and the level design of Grimrock.
This is how the game is. Deal with it. Or leave it.

The only reason why this thread is growing is that shortsighted, displeased people are the most vocal.

Why are people demanding to fix stuff that
1: isn't broken
2: works as intended and
3: most people enjoy as it is?

Because they only consider their own perspective and do not even bother considering the possibility that another exists.
Megami wrote:For me 2x2 is a clear example of an exploit. It allows you to kill any single mob without any HP loss, without any skill or tactics, no matter the party level. If this is not an exploit for you I don't know what is.
This is factually wrong and a perfect proof of what I just said...

Megami
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:47 pm
Location: the Czech republic

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Megami » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:56 pm

Encephalon: I am talking about 2x2, not killing a charging ogre. Also 2x2 exploit != strafing. Care to quote me where I wanted to remove strafing completely?
BlueLegion: can you show me some statistics if you are so bold to claim that majority of players enjoy mindless killing of a defensless mob?

Eobersig
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:54 am

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Eobersig » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:13 pm

I'd also say it's certainly not an exploit. Same as with hiding behind doors, the cheesy tactic I use even more often than strafing.

Mobs hit like a truck in this game, thus it's necessary not to get hit too often. The only downside with the whole strafing/door hiding thing is that it devalues the defensive skill trees. Has anyone ever put points into staff defense? :)

MASKOAA
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:09 am

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by MASKOAA » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:45 pm

Megami wrote:Encephalon: I am talking about 2x2, not killing a charging ogre. Also 2x2 exploit != strafing. Care to quote me where I wanted to remove strafing completely?
BlueLegion: can you show me some statistics if you are so bold to claim that majority of players enjoy mindless killing of a defensless mob?
You say you don't want to remove strafing.....but 2x2 is an exploit.....yet it was purposely put in the game and an exploit is something that isn't suppose to be there....soo.....yea.....what are you talking about.

User avatar
Isaac
Posts: 3089
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Isaac » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:59 pm

Eobersig wrote:Has anyone ever put points into staff defense? :)
Yes. (But I don't disagree with you.)

However, there is a benefit when your party is surprise hit from behind, or surrounded.

Post Reply