2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
muun
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by muun » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:38 pm

1varangian wrote:I think the effectiveness of the strafing tactic undermines the whole RPG / character building aspect of the game. Crabs, ogres.. they all go down without ever even getting to attack you. Defensive abilities and stats become meaningless. I think there's a lot of room for improvement here.
r
You know, you don't have to do the 2x2 dance. The only reason to do it is because your defensive abilities are not up to snuff. If well done, defensive abilities are quite enough to go toe-to-toe with crabs ... and with ogres, though probably not by the very first ogre encounter.

1varangian
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by 1varangian » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:53 pm

Why would I choose not to avoid all damage when it's easy to do?

Of course I put all skill points into offense, ignore defense because it's pointless and kick 83% more ass.

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Jack Dandy
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Jack Dandy » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:59 pm

Here's a counter-argument, Muun.

This is basically an action-RPG. (Combat-wise) These kind of games should be balanced by a high skill ceiling or deep RPG-stat related mechanics.
Since the game's structured the way it is, it should either add deeper skill-based mechanics or more stats to fiddle around with (that matter).

MASKOAA
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by MASKOAA » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:58 pm

Leave the game as is and add more monster abilities. Spiders spit web to hold you in place, slugs and slimes leave a sticky slime trail that slows your movement....things like that.

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Jack Dandy
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Jack Dandy » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:28 pm

Perfectly reasonable, since basically that will increase the amount of player skill involved.

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Spathi
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Spathi » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:01 pm

145 posts, lol lol. Lots of people would like it. Do you realize it could just be made an option so all these tears would be for naught. I really don't get what the big deal is, it seems like a typical internet argument for arguments sake. Some people just want a game like this where we can build a character explore and fight, with balance, without the console feel of running around the screen clicking monsters for XP without any risk.

The game is new, the dev team has had a short time to work on it, they probably never finished tweaking everything and never added everything yet. So if you have got your knickers in a knot now you may get all emo if they do start improving the engine (and they may not I suppose). Some of the current features may be intended, but they are probably kludges. You should not really be able to walk around killing xx monsters with no effort unless you fall asleep, then save and teleport to a room where you need to reload once you have worked out what direction to run in.

1varangian
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by 1varangian » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:06 pm

Monsters really should behave differently against strafing and present different stages how easy it is to manually dodge them. Such as...

Rotting Zombie - (new monster! ;)) Easy to strafe as they are slow moving, slow to react. You can 2x2 them all day long as they are only dangerous in numbers when they can surround you.

Undead Legionnaire - as fast as they were in life, they can time their attacks like the player. If they are not on cooldown they can instantly attack you when you strafe in range or after they turn to face you. (note: Spears and other long reach weapons could also have faster initiative in this regard.)

Ogre - large monsters can sweep attack to their weapon side flank as they turn or hit all 3 squares in front of them. Slow so strafing is still possible but much harder as you have to reach their backside/flank to be safe and be careful not to strafe to the weapon side.

Giant wasps - if you try to strafe them, they just get more free attacks at you. Strafing them is always a bad idea unless there is a better position to fight from or you are trying not to get surrounded.

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Cadmus
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Cadmus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:24 pm

Jack Dandy wrote:This is basically an action-RPG. (Combat-wise)
But the game itself isn't about combat. It's about exploration, puzzles, resource management, and yes, getting out of fights alive too. This game is many things rolled into the experience of exploring the dungeon environment, so the whole argument to "balance" and add optionitis to the whole combat system as though it was *the* focal point of the game is bollocks.

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Jack Dandy
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Jack Dandy » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:16 pm

Hmmm. you're making a good point, Cadmus.

I still think combat could be made to be somewhat deeper, though. Or, at least have your stats play a bigger role in it, somehow.

Kostas
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

Post by Kostas » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:07 pm

Cadmus wrote:
Jack Dandy wrote:This is basically an action-RPG. (Combat-wise)
But the game itself isn't about combat. It's about exploration, puzzles, resource management, and yes, getting out of fights alive too. This game is many things rolled into the experience of exploring the dungeon environment, so the whole argument to "balance" and add optionitis to the whole combat system as though it was *the* focal point of the game is bollocks.
That's not an argument. That's just contradiction! /Monty Python

The game may not be focused on combat, but as long as combat is a part of it, we can discuss the merits of any game design decisions regarding it.
If you're not interested then don't participate. Please.

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