Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
Sabatasso
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Sabatasso » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:57 pm

Kostas wrote: Other games with similar inventory dilemmas do indeed provide bags of holding of various types.
This game does provide bags, and the weight "problem" is just a little thing called realism.

Kostas
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Kostas » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:10 pm

Sabatasso wrote:
Kostas wrote: Other games with similar inventory dilemmas do indeed provide bags of holding of various types.
This game does provide bags, and the weight "problem" is just a little thing called realism.
I said "bags of holding" not "bags".
Take your realism and shove it up the undead skeleton's "behind".
Seriously, you brought out the realism card in a game with magic?
We get it, you don't like the OP's idea, no need to spam the thread with your opinion and harass anyone who might agree with the OP's suggestion.
No one's forcing you to accept bags of holding in your game anyway.

Goffmog
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Goffmog » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Kostas wrote:
Sabatasso wrote:
Kostas wrote: Other games with similar inventory dilemmas do indeed provide bags of holding of various types.
This game does provide bags, and the weight "problem" is just a little thing called realism.
I said "bags of holding" not "bags".
Take your realism and shove it up the undead skeleton's "behind".
Seriously, you brought out the realism card in a game with magic?
We get it, you don't like the OP's idea, no need to spam the thread with your opinion and harass anyone who might agree with the OP's suggestion.
No one's forcing you to accept bags of holding in your game anyway.
IMO the problem isn't with realism, it's about what is critical to the gameplay of a dungeon crawler, and it would be a step away from their goal of making a game that captures the spirit of DM and EotB for them to introduce too many convenience measures into the core gameplay. Inventory management is rather like mapping. Once you start with map scrolls, you end up with auto maps, then mini maps, then quest helping arrows. In a game where there's no help with navigation, you have a dynamic to making your way through a claustraphobic environment like a dungeon that you just dont have in games with automaps and minimaps, etc. This in itself doesn't make the game bad, but it does eliminate part of the gameplay. Inventory management is similar - if you introduce things to make it more convenient, you take the inventory management dynamic out of the game, and there goes another aspect of gameplay. Not a problem if you have new gameplay mechanics you want to add like perhaps crafting, shops, dialogue trees, or gay romances - but you've changed the mood and essence of the game to the point where it is no longer evocative of those games you're trying to capture the spirit of.

Kostas
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Kostas » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:59 pm

Goffmog wrote:
Kostas wrote:I said "bags of holding" not "bags".
Take your realism and shove it up the undead skeleton's "behind".
Seriously, you brought out the realism card in a game with magic?
We get it, you don't like the OP's idea, no need to spam the thread with your opinion and harass anyone who might agree with the OP's suggestion.
No one's forcing you to accept bags of holding in your game anyway.
IMO the problem isn't with realism, it's about what is critical to the gameplay of a dungeon crawler, and it would be a step away from their goal of making a game that captures the spirit of DM and EotB for them to introduce too many convenience measures into the core gameplay. Inventory management is rather like mapping. Once you start with map scrolls, you end up with auto maps, then mini maps, then quest helping arrows. In a game where there's no help with navigation, you have a dynamic to making your way through a claustraphobic environment like a dungeon that you just dont have in games with automaps and minimaps, etc. This in itself doesn't make the game bad, but it does eliminate part of the gameplay. Inventory management is similar - if you introduce things to make it more convenient, you take the inventory management dynamic out of the game, and there goes another aspect of gameplay. Not a problem if you have new gameplay mechanics you want to add like perhaps crafting, shops, dialogue trees, or gay romances - but you've changed the mood and essence of the game to the point where it is no longer evocative of those games you're trying to capture the spirit of.
LoG has automap you know.
Black Crypt had a great minimap (wizard eye spell) and that was oldschool game (in your words one of the games you're trying to capture the spirit of). EotB had no weight encumbrance IIRC. Other games had bag of holdings.
Automaps are irrelevant anyway.
Your argument fails. Also what does bag of holdings (a magic item) have to do with relieving claustrophobia in dungeons? Quest helping arrows, well you're in non-sequitir territory there mate. Inventory management is still there with bags of holding. Hell it's even a problem in Neverwinter Nights for me >.<
All I'm saying is there's no reason to pile up on the OP like he said something crazy. Give him a break, it's a reasonable request, that I'm sure modders will accommodate if the DEVs don't.

PS: What's wrong with gay romances? That was a homophobic addition to your post that seems odd and insulting (and I'm not even gay). Also Captive had shops in the dungeons, but that was sort of a futuristic DM clone.

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Zu ra-ha
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Zu ra-ha » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:12 am

Saice wrote:
Zu ra-ha wrote:I'm using 2-3 boxes to keep my heavy stuffs and i'm grabbing them from the ground with a mouse click then start walking to next life crystal without putting it into my inventory, i do this when i leave the current stage.

It is a mystery how you can carry it around.
Your mage uses levitate object?
Not really, it looks like a bug but it is usefull :)
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Saice
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Saice » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:12 am

Zu ra-ha wrote:
Saice wrote:
Zu ra-ha wrote:I'm using 2-3 boxes to keep my heavy stuffs and i'm grabbing them from the ground with a mouse click then start walking to next life crystal without putting it into my inventory, i do this when i leave the current stage.

It is a mystery how you can carry it around.
Your mage uses levitate object?
Not really, it looks like a bug but it is usefull :)
Actully it has existed in a lot of games like this on and off. Either mouse held items have no impact on party or their weight goes to the "party leader". Since you have only option to set leader in this (defaults to guy in the upper left) weighted mouse items could be problemantic.

Honestly I do not think it was a bug but more a design choice made early on then forgoten about.
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Sabatasso
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Sabatasso » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:44 am

Kostas wrote: I said "bags of holding" not "bags".
Take your realism and shove it up the undead skeleton's "behind".
Seriously, you brought out the realism card in a game with magic?
We get it, you don't like the OP's idea, no need to spam the thread with your opinion and harass anyone who might agree with the OP's suggestion.
So you think hauling around unlimited amounts of a varying degree of trash, that you can never sell, is critical to the gameplay?
Yes, the game involves magic, but "magic" is a relative term. Maybe the magic of Grimrock aren't exactly like the Magic in Faerûn, have you considered that?
Maybe this magic does not involve the folding of space and time to create an unlimited spacial bag?
And it's not so much about realism as it is logic, really, because if you can forget about all logic in a fantasy world, you could also forget about gravity and all other "logic" that is implied unless it's specifically described differently.
Kostas wrote: No one's forcing you to accept bags of holding in your game anyway.
It is not as simple as that, introducing bags of holding would completely remove the need for inventory management and remove a sense of immersion in my opinion. It's not comparable to adding a convenience panel on the UI at all.

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PSY
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by PSY » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Sabatasso wrote:It is not as simple as that, introducing bags of holding would completely remove the need for inventory management and remove a sense of immersion in my opinion. It's not comparable to adding a convenience panel on the UI at all.
Let's get this straight.
I'm not talking about an unlimited amount of containers providing a 100% weight reduction.
I'm talking about 2-3 bags, scattered all over the dungeon, with a weight reduction of 30-50%.

I don't think that a few weight-reducing items (called lesser bags of holding) would remove the need for inventory management, not even remotely. They're just a nice bonus.

As Kortas already said, it's just a suggestion. And like he said, the bags don't remove the problem, they just elevate it a bit.

So let's not start flame wars. Get your asses down in the dungeon ^^


PSY
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Kostas
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by Kostas » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:49 pm

Sabatasso wrote:
Kostas wrote: I said "bags of holding" not "bags".
Take your realism and shove it up the undead skeleton's "behind".
Seriously, you brought out the realism card in a game with magic?
We get it, you don't like the OP's idea, no need to spam the thread with your opinion and harass anyone who might agree with the OP's suggestion.
So you think hauling around unlimited amounts of a varying degree of trash, that you can never sell, is critical to the gameplay?
Yes, the game involves magic, but "magic" is a relative term. Maybe the magic of Grimrock aren't exactly like the Magic in Faerûn, have you considered that?
Maybe this magic does not involve the folding of space and time to create an unlimited spacial bag?
And it's not so much about realism as it is logic, really, because if you can forget about all logic in a fantasy world, you could also forget about gravity and all other "logic" that is implied unless it's specifically described differently.
Where did I say unlimited? Where did I say trash? Have you tried soloing btw? Food (weight and inventory slots) makes that almost unbearable.
Have you considered that while the magic of Grimrock isn't exactly like the Magic in Faerûn, there's room for magic containers in both?
I'm not trying to convince you my way is better, it's just my way. I just thought people were bunching up and bullying the OP and I stepped in.
I didn't use the world logic btw. I used realism. Yes, it goes without saying that RPG worlds have some basic rules like the real world, but how far that goes is up to the designer. Not you in this case. You can't claim with authority that realism in Grimrock dictates no bags of holding either.
People obviously want them in. Others don't. Well put them in and if someone doesn't like then don't use it. Temptation too much for you? ;p
Sabatasso wrote:
Kostas wrote: No one's forcing you to accept bags of holding in your game anyway.
It is not as simple as that, introducing bags of holding would completely remove the need for inventory management and remove a sense of immersion in my opinion. It's not comparable to adding a convenience panel on the UI at all.
If inventory management is the pinnacle of immersion into an RPG for you then... whatever floats your boat.
But don't be condescending to others who feel it's only a minor inconvenience.
And it all depends on how many bags of holding there are, how good they are, how much stuff the party is required to carry and how many party members there are (technically even dead members in Grimrock keep on carrying stuff, even equipped torches keep on working).
So don't be too eager to overgeneralize.

Have a nice day.

PS: Even my 4 mage party has enough inventory for me (cause I throw away almost everything but food), but I still think bags of holding are a neat idea.

MASKOAA
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Re: Man I am so FULL I cannot walk [SUGGESTION]

Post by MASKOAA » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:02 pm

PSY wrote:
Sabatasso wrote:It is not as simple as that, introducing bags of holding would completely remove the need for inventory management and remove a sense of immersion in my opinion. It's not comparable to adding a convenience panel on the UI at all.
Let's get this straight.
I'm not talking about an unlimited amount of containers providing a 100% weight reduction.
I'm talking about 2-3 bags, scattered all over the dungeon, with a weight reduction of 30-50%.

I don't think that a few weight-reducing items (called lesser bags of holding) would remove the need for inventory management, not even remotely. They're just a nice bonus.

As Kortas already said, it's just a suggestion. And like he said, the bags don't remove the problem, they just elevate it a bit.

So let's not start flame wars. Get your asses down in the dungeon ^^


PSY
Maybe if you actually needed those bags sure but I've beaten the game mulitiple times on multiple difficulties and I always end up with extreme excess at the end. Supplies aren't so low in this game that it warrants this idea.

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