Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

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wagtunes
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Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:00 pm

Legend Of Grimrock took me back to my EoB days except with much better graphics. It was a delight to play until I reached the end. Having finally pulled out all 4 pieces from the cube I soon came to realize that with the Power Weapon no longer having any effect and my 2 mages dead, there is no way to win this game. As the Cube can turn on a dime, close combat isn't even an option.

Now I do have multiple save points and I could always go back to the point just after I got the Power Weapon, but why bother? The difficulty for somebody who just turned 60 and doesn't quite have the dexterity that he had back when EoB came out is ridiculous. So 18 hours of "registered" game play (who knows how long in actual time spent between all the reloads) ends with a very disappointing finish. I get that the ending has to be tough, but this is stupidly tough. Yeah, I know, you young kids can whip around that maze with pits and creatures all around you eating a sandwich while sleeping. We old timers can't.

I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this post and I'm ready for it. Just try to keep things relatively civil. I know that's asking a lot of the Internet, but try.

Not sure I'm going to bother tackling LOG 2.

I can only imagine how tough the end of THAT is going to be.

Still, I give this game 8 out of 10 stars, marred only by the "boss" battle.

Shame. This could have been a classic.

wagtunes
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:37 pm

Well, seeing as I was unable to outmaneuver these creatures in the final level, I decided that maybe I could out think them. I'm posting this as a spoiler because it actually is a way to cheat your way to victory.
SpoilerShow
Step 1 - First, I reloaded the game back to after I just found the power weapon.

Step 2 - I then made as many healing potions as I could, primarily for my mages who get killed so easily.

Step 3 - I then went into the portal to return to the main room. My objective was to just remove ONE piece.

Step 4 - Remove a piece and then fall down the nearest hole I could find. As long as I survived, I could rest or heal back to full strength. If it turned out I was closer to the portal that takes you back to the stairway leading up to getting the power weapon, I would take that. Whichever was closer.

Step 5 - I simply kept repeating Step 4 until all pieces were removed, making sure to save the game under a new name after each piece was removed in case something went wrong.

Step 6 - After all pieces were removed, I then returned to the room at full strength and my new goal was to now get just ONE hit on the cube with either my fireball or lightning bolt spell. As soon as I made the hit, I'd again look for a portal or hole to drop through.

Step 7 - I repeated Step 6 until the cube was defeated.

Unfortunately, as there was no way for me to immediately tell when the fatal blow would strike, I had to immediately duck into the portal to return to the power weapon entrance and I didn't actually get to see the cube die. That part was a little disappointing but it was the only way I was getting through this.

Even though I did finish the adventure, I'm not overly thrilled with the ending. Still, this was a great game. It really took me back and gave me way more than the 20 logged hours as far as enjoyment.
I'm working on my own dungeon that is going to focus on puzzles over combat. If you enjoy thinking more than you enjoy beating up on monsters and having to perform acrobatics just to get through something, you might actually enjoy the dungeon I'm working on. The puzzles are insanely difficult, which is why I will be including a clue book with it when it's released.

In the meantime, I'm sure I'm not the only one who was a little disapppointed by the ending, if for different reasons. When your hands don't work as fast as they did 30 years ago, you prefer thinking over gymnastics.

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Isaac
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by Isaac » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:21 am

Play LoG2. It's a marked improvement.

...But play ORRR2 first. :mrgreen:

**We made a PDF clue book, and added an achievement system; and ladders; and a lot of things.

wagtunes
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:29 am

Isaac wrote:Play LoG2. It's a marked improvement.

...But play ORRR2 first. :mrgreen:

**We made a PDF clue book, and added an achievement system; and ladders; and a lot of things.
Please don't get me wrong. For the most part, this game was a dream come true. I thought this genre was stone cold dead, especially in this style. In a year or so, I'll probably play LOG 1 again. Because most of it was really cool.

Okay, what the heck is ORRR2? LOL

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Isaac
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by Isaac » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:47 am

It's a Grimrock mod that several of us made; (22 of us).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6453

https://vimeo.com/82399365

There is a full length Let's Play, posted by Komag, and another by minmay; both on Youtube... spoiler heavy.

There is also the full editor project file available on the Nexusmods website. [Membership is free]

https://www.nexusmods.com/grimrock/mods/368/?tab=files

Steam version: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =241880858

wagtunes
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:16 am

Isaac wrote:It's a Grimrock mod that several of us made; (22 of us).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6453

https://vimeo.com/82399365

There is a full length Let's Play, posted by Komag, and another by minmay; both on Youtube... spoiler heavy.

There is also the full editor project file available on the Nexusmods website. [Membership is free]

https://www.nexusmods.com/grimrock/mods/368/?tab=files

Steam version: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =241880858
Thanks. Will definitely check all this out. Already downloaded a couple of mods that are really great. The one I am totally stuck on so put it aside for the time being.

** EDIT ** Am downloading it now. Description sounds absolutely awesome. Can't wait to give 22 rooms a go. Thanks so much for sharing this.

wagtunes
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Just wanted to return to this thread to let you know that I gave ORRR2 a shot but after about 4 hours discovered it was just way too hard for me. It's obvious you guys put a lot of time into it but these puzzles have me stumped.
SpoilerShow
1. The game with the ogres. I somehow managed to get that little creature onto all 4 squares but nothing seemed to happen. So obviously that wasn't the point. Not sure what else to do. Trying to go through it again, touching any other pressure plate just blows the whole thing up.

2. The room with the teleporter with the weird color, have tried everything I can think of to solve it.

3. The spirit in the one room. Have tried the wand (nothing in it and don't know what goes in it) and even tried attacking it to the point where it gets angry enough to fight back. That was pointless. He obviously can't be defeated through combat.

4. The section with the holes in the wall and the button that does nothing. Forget it. Totally lost.

In general, I'm just walking around in circles right now. All the creatures seem to be cleared out except for the wyverns that seem to spawn. I'm out of food. My party is starving and if it wasn't for the healing crystal I'd be toast.

When a game gets to this point where it's just a total snooze, it's pointless to go on. I even went as far as to download the source files and look at the script codes, which helped some but not enough to do much good. For example, the teleporter, I found something about rock in alcove. But because there's not much documentation in the scripts, I can't tell what I'm supposed to do. The button puzzle at least I see that there are a number of gems that I have to get. But have no idea where any but the cyan ones are. Have yet to find any others. And judging by how many places I'm stuck at, they are all probably along those paths.

So it's time for me to pack this one up. Again, great job by the programmers. They should be very proud of their creation. If they wanted to make something that would be extremely difficult to solve, mission accomplished.

Now I'm gonna go download something else (I've also given up on Bloodwych or whatever it's called) and see how far I get with that.

Thanks again for the suggestion on this one. I at least got 4 hours out of it which isn't bad.

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Isaac
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by Isaac » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:50 pm

It wasn't a goal for it to be super hard, but it was the case that the gameplay was sometimes too unfamiliar, or unexpected.
The dungeon was designed with the intention that the player did not have to solve (or even visit) every room; and most rooms can be backed out of.

Here is the official hint thread, and a link to the secrets & achievements guide:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6452
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sq498nriuevbj ... 0Guide.pdf
Many questions asked and answered.

And here is a Youtube Playlist of Komag's full trip through the dungeon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxkJxhH ... 5ubUbq7BDm

It's twenty videos in total, but you can skim around through each; and see every room.

Here are a two direct links to the Ogre puzzle, and the spirit puzzle:

Ogres: https://youtu.be/8kl8lqk3qNU?t=12m9s

Spirit: https://youtu.be/RLxVzB1q9pg?t=10m1s
Last edited by Isaac on Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wagtunes
Posts: 154
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Re: Disappointing Finish To A Great Game

Post by wagtunes » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:18 pm

Isaac wrote:It wasn't a goal for it to be super hard, but it was the case that the gameplay was sometimes too unfamiliar, or unexpected.
The dungeon was designed with the intention that the player did not have to solve (or even visit) every room; and most rooms can be backed out of.

Here is the official hint thread, and a link to the secrets & achievements guide:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6452
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sq498nriuevbj ... 0Guide.pdf
Many questions asked and answered.

And here is a Youtube Playlist of Komag's full trip through the dungeon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxkJxhH ... 5ubUbq7BDm

It's twenty videos in total, but you can skim around through each; and see every room.
Yeah, I've already downloaded the guide. The only thing I haven't done yet (like I said, even went through the source code) is watch the videos. I'm sure that some of the "game play" is going to look extremely odd and require out of the box thinking. That's never been a strong suit of mine, thus the purchase of quite a few clue books over the years.

Anyway, I'll start going through the videos here and there when I have the time.

Again, they did an amazing job on this. As a programmer myself, I see the amount of work that went into this and I'm extremely impressed.

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