Does magic skill increase spell damage?

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Vichar
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Vichar » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:25 am

I do think that, among other decisions, magic is a weakness in Grimrock. The game is very, very well made, and I appreciate the high production values. I do.

It seems to me that maybe the devs simply ran out of time with the magic system. I much preferred the way Magic worked in Dungeon Master. One of the joys of being a spell caster is having a repertoire of spells to choose from for different situations. I realize that maybe AH was thinking about replay value, but honestly casters are little more than 1 or 2 spell tricks right now. They might as well shoot bolts out of staffs they find in the dungeon for all the variety they have.

Maybe expansions will change the system a little. As it stands right now, I agree with other posters that mages aren't as powerful as other classes, especially compared to the minataur rogue. I like to minmax as much as the next guy, but I'm not really playing this game to minmax. I want a mage in my group because it rounds out my group nicely. And I was just wondering if putting points into an ability increased spell damage, because other classes scale right now but... the mage does not?! It seems silly.

If it's not too much trouble, I would love if a Dev came and explained the factors that influence spell damage.

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Spathi
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Spathi » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:50 am

Yeah I don't think anyone knows. I am at work, but can you turn on creature health bars and have a b4/after level up look (with no extra spell craft or anything) to see if the average damage goes up, I vaguely remember it as an option, but I am a bit forgetful these days.

Dev comment would be more relaxing though.

Just because ppl managed to tank another character does not mean it is a good thing to do for every character. I think people ignore that most spells have line effect and area effect so can create real carnage or freeze lets the other characters hack without a dance move, some spell descriptions and variety may be nice though. Also light is fun.

btw, What is the darkness spell?

choasrepeated
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by choasrepeated » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:53 am

Im not sure if anyone actually answered the the question does magic skill increase spell damage.
I'd need to run tests, to confirm but from my use of fire surge (or what ever it is called) at low levels versus high I believe there is a slight increase of power.
Additionally I'm surprised about the comments regarding magic being the weakest.
I have two lizard men tanks, a mino rogue, and an insect mage (mainly fire), and if I'm not carefull the lizard men dont get any xp since the mage has one shot the entire group.
Additionally the magic arrows my mage gives the rogue further add to the insanity of his damage.
I'm only at level 10, so maybe things get harder later or something.

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Spathi
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Spathi » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:04 am

from a thread ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1700&p=16548&hilit=+spell#p16548 )..
petri wrote:
klemzo wrote:Also, I have my FIRE Magic at 24 now. Do I need to get higher? Besides the Fire Resistance, which I do not even need as I haven't been hit by a fire spell yet, what good does it do? The question here really is do skills give you increase on something, mainly damage, when you skill them? (even if the skills itself doesn't say).
From the Fire Magic skill description:
"This skill represents your character's training in Fire Magic. You obtain the power to cast new spells and increase the efficiency of fire spells as you advance in this skill."
I suspect the devs won't want to increase the entropy of the game too fast for us by revealing much more ;oP
Still a few extra descriptions may help get the ball rolling.

Vichar
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Vichar » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:33 am

Spathi wrote:I suspect the devs won't want to increase the entropy of the game too fast for us by revealing much more ;oP
Still a few extra descriptions may help get the ball rolling.
Interesting viewpoint. If that's true, it's interesting that they didn't make the same decision for weapon skills. It's very obvious that attack power is rising with every nth point I put into, say, daggers or swords. I like the transparency of it--it helps me decide where to put points. As it is, I will admit that I'm holding onto points from several levels with my mage because I simply don't know if it's worthwhile to pump more points into his primary magic school. I think a lot of players have said they stopped when they received improved icebolt/fireball/lightning bolt/ poison bolt.

Exiled
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Exiled » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:37 am

Vichar wrote:
Spathi wrote:I suspect the devs won't want to increase the entropy of the game too fast for us by revealing much more ;oP
Still a few extra descriptions may help get the ball rolling.
As it is, I will admit that I'm holding onto points from several levels with my mage because I simply don't know if it's worthwhile to pump more points into his primary magic school. I think a lot of players have said they stopped when they received improved icebolt/fireball/lightning bolt/ poison bolt.
I do the same, it seems like with each level of magic school there is slight improvement in damage, but it's not like i can be 100% sure it's not my character level for example. I'm also wondering if it's worth putting everything into single school of magic to max out.

But well... since minotaur rouges are so common i guess nobody experimented enough with mages, maybe they're not that bad if build properly after all?

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Phitt
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Phitt » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:23 pm

I know this is an old thread, but I couldn't find any definitive information on it so I thought I'd test it and share my findings. If this is already common knowledge and everyone but me knows how it works I apologize for making a useless post.

I tested the impact of skills and attributes on damage output by firing fireballs on an enemy (an ice lizard) repeatedly with different attribute/skill values (using the savegame editor). I cast the spell 10x with every skill set and calculated the average damage.
Fire Magic 15
Willpower 21
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 68.4

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 21
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 146.7

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 50
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 138.4

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 50
Spellcraft 50

Average damage: 148.2
In conclusion it is safe to say that the spell skills have a very noticeable effect on damage output (at least 100% damage increase between a skill level of 15 and 50) while willpower and spellcraft don't have any effect.

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steyrhahn
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by steyrhahn » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:18 am

Phitt wrote: ....

In conclusion it is safe to say that the spell skills have a very noticeable effect on damage output (at least 100% damage increase between a skill level of 15 and 50) while willpower and spellcraft don't have any effect.
however, will power and spellcraft impact other things. Like how much energy you gain each LU, how much added energy you have overall, and how fast you can cast spells.

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Dr.Disaster
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by Dr.Disaster » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:33 am

steyrhahn wrote:however, will power and spellcraft impact other things. Like how much energy you gain each LU, how much added energy you have overall, and how fast you can cast spells.
The energy pool is defined by how much energy is added by skills, items and level-up's. This amount of energy granted on level-up's is based on Wisdom so higher is better. Cast speed is defined by Spellcraft and items modifing cooldowns.

johnnysd
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Re: Does magic skill increase spell damage?

Post by johnnysd » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:18 am

Phitt wrote:I know this is an old thread, but I couldn't find any definitive information on it so I thought I'd test it and share my findings. If this is already common knowledge and everyone but me knows how it works I apologize for making a useless post.

I tested the impact of skills and attributes on damage output by firing fireballs on an enemy (an ice lizard) repeatedly with different attribute/skill values (using the savegame editor). I cast the spell 10x with every skill set and calculated the average damage.
Fire Magic 15
Willpower 21
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 68.4

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 21
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 146.7

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 50
Spellcraft 10

Average damage: 138.4

Fire Magic 50
Willpower 50
Spellcraft 50

Average damage: 148.2
In conclusion it is safe to say that the spell skills have a very noticeable effect on damage output (at least 100% damage increase between a skill level of 15 and 50) while willpower and spellcraft don't have any effect.
The actual test would be between 24 in Fire Magic and 50 in Fire Magic with everything else the same because at 24 you get increased fireball which increases fireball damage as a perk

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