Please not mods/DLCs

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
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mrgaming4cheap
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by mrgaming4cheap » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:41 pm

dazman76 wrote:Mods - or at least, new maps/levels - are a great way to increase interest for a game, and therefore sales potential for any official expansions/sequels. They keep players interested in the game, and keep them aware of it by allowing them to play it for longer after release. Also, developers who simply release "new content" as expansions or sequels don't always reap the rewards - content plus new features is the way to go, if you really want to make it worthwhile. The developers will always be able to offer more than modders or mappers, as long as they play their cards right - their work should never be devalued, even if community work is of the highest quality.
mrgaming4cheap wrote:I am doing an LP of this game and I want to see the developer do more maps for this game. If I decide to do an LP of another map then I don't want to risk getting a busted map made by a fan. Can you imagine an LPer putting up 20 episodes just to find a game breaking bug? And I don't mind paying for maps either. The developers are trying to put food on their table just like every one else. If I have to shell out a few dollars to play a new map then so be it.
Sorry, but I find it hard to make judgements on something like this, from the perspective of problems when making LP videos :) While such videos obviously do contribute to a game's exposure, many people still buy and enjoy games without ever touching an LP video. I also completely understand that this may be your hobby, your interest - but it's also an incredibly selfish perspective. "Don't allow user generated content, in case I struggle with making youtube videos" - that isn't what these decisions should be based on. New content is for the players - not for people making youtube videos, or even people watching those youtube videos. Very selfish indeed :)
Greco wrote:Do they involve any puzzles? I think they are both hasck and slash, quest based rpgs!
You're asserting that players cannot create puzzles - I have no idea where this notion came from, but it's wildly incorrect. There are at least two full Portal mods that contain amazing examples of Portal puzzles - they had rough edges at release, but they were fixed later. Game developers and designers are not super-humans - while they are obviously very talented, they are still just people like you and I. Do not be so hasty to devalue the skills of your fellow gamers :) Also, please kill this opinion that user-generated content somehow damages future official developments - this is absolute nonsense. If the developer of a game cannot bring enough to the table for a sequel, and is "outshone" by community work for the previous game - they clearly should not be developing more official content. I doubt very much that this is the case with LoG/AH, since they've done such an obviously good job with the first game :)

This whole thread seems to be founded on unsubstantiated claims and very rocky opinions of how user-generated content communities and developers work. It's almost like people are wearing tin-foil hats and reading "Ye Olde Game Development Prophecy", while checking tea leaves in the bottom of their cup...

Uhm, no where did I ever say I was against user created content. I just said that I wanted to do LPs of official content. For the love of god, why can't we have both DLC and mods? If you say you prefer one or the other then an argument breaks out. Where are the moderators? Why does almost every thread here turn into an argument?

dazman76
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by dazman76 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:22 pm

No offence intended Mr Gaming - and no argument either - but if you aren't making the point that user mods/maps could introduce bugs, what point ARE you trying to make? :) (Note the smiley, which indicates I'm not at all angry, but just confused about the comment you made earlier in the thread).
mrgaming4cheap wrote:Uhm, no where did I ever say I was against user created content. I just said that I wanted to do LPs of official content.
If your point wasn't "I don't want mods", then what is this statement below trying to say?
mrgaming4cheap wrote:Can you imagine an LPer putting up 20 episodes just to find a game breaking bug?
If you're happy to simply do LP videos only using official content, I don't see how bugs in mods would even affect you in the slightest? Play the stock game, official content only - surely that's the end of the story, and therefore you have no reason to agree with the OP - who is requesting that mods and DLC are not made available? This is essentially like cancelling an order for a new car in red paint, because they also do a bright green option that you'd hate, but weren't even considering buying. I'm confused as to why you made the initial comment, when it's your choice to either feature user-generated content, or avoid it :)
mrgaming4cheap wrote:For the love of god, why can't we have both DLC and mods?
There WILL be both DLC and mods, or at the least sequels and mods. This mix was planned from the start it seems, and as far as I'm aware, nobody has stated otherwise.

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Kthanid
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Kthanid » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:08 pm

Greco wrote:but with a hell of content out there why a developer should bother creating a sequel.
Oh, I don't know... the usual reasons, like making money. Additionally, even if they did not want to create a sequel and wanted to move on to creating their next groundbreaking original work, why would the existence (or absence) of mods sway their decision to do so... and even if it did, why would getting these talented developers working on their next big project be a bad thing in any way?
Greco wrote:If i was a developer I would pursue something else.
Let us all take a moment to thank our lucky stars you weren't on the development team.
Greco wrote:Guys, we don't speak here of FPS and quest based RPGs where you can pass your time killing, hacking and slashing. We speak of a game with specific characteristics, that needs wits. It is not Morrowind, it is not Oblivion, it is not Skyrim, these were games placed on a vast world environments and most of all quest-based. No puzzles at all. Tell me, please, a game with similar characteristics as Grimrock that 1) Allowed for modding 2) Benefited from them.
There hasn't been a game like Grimrock in something like 20 years, are you saying you attribute that to excessive modding back when these games were popular? Your argument doesn't make any sense.

It's honestly really difficult to tell if you're merely a somewhat cunning troll or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you actually mean well. You're just going to have to sit back and enjoy the ride regardless of whether you agree with it or not. This game is actively being modded as we speak without any tools from the developers and they have expressed a direct interest in providing additional official modding tools to the community. They believe this will strengthen their sales and overall following (and all relevant statistics on the matter support this assumption).

HeavyMetalMonk
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by HeavyMetalMonk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:17 pm

dazman76 wrote:No offence intended
I'll turn this around to say that I do indeed intend to offend. Why, you may ask?

Because Greco, you are an idiot.

Greco
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Greco » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:30 pm

HeavyMetalMonk wrote:
dazman76 wrote:No offence intended
I'll turn this around to say that I do indeed intend to offend. Why, you may ask?

Because Greco, you are an idiot.
Obviously you have no manners. I will not fall in your level and start abusing you. You are exploiting the anonnymity that this forum offers to say whatever you want, however I don't blame you because lack of manners is not probably your own fault but of your parents which didn't managed to teach you them when you were young. Though I am sure, from your behavior that you are still very young. So I imagine that it is never too late to learn some manners! Please grow up.

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regomar
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by regomar » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Greco wrote:
HeavyMetalMonk wrote:
dazman76 wrote:No offence intended
I'll turn this around to say that I do indeed intend to offend. Why, you may ask?

Because Greco, you are an idiot.
Obviously you have no manners. I will not fall in your level and start abusing you. You are exploiting the anonnymity that this forum offers to say whatever you want, however I don't blame you because lack of manners is not probably your own fault but of your parents which didn't managed to teach you them when you were young. Though I am sure, from your behavior that you are still very young. So I imagine that it is never too late to learn some manners! Please grow up.
Greco, I'm sorry, but you're the one inviting these kinds of posts.

Evidence of numerous successful RPGs and the companies that made them with heavy modding have been brought up and you ignore every one but Neverwinter, about which you made comments that were pointed out as being patently untrue and inaccurate. Not only did Neverwinter get amazing expansion packs that sold like hotcakes even with the modding that you're so fearful would destroy the company's interest in creating such content, the game got a sequel and it's dev went on to be one of the most successful development studios of all time!

Every point you have made on this thread; EVERY point, has been base speculation with absolutely no regard for fact or examples from the past. You think that too much user content will kill a re-emerging genre that has already been dead for over a decade? You mean just like how the hundreds of thousands of Doom maps and mods killed Doom back int he day? Like how the thousands of amazing mods killed Morrowind and Oblivion (which both got expansions and sequels)? Like how user-generated content has killed Amnesia: The Dark Descent? History proves you wrong on every example. Modding makes genres THRIVE and grow as well as their community. If ANYTHING makes a sequel to this game sell more, it will be embracing the modding community.


I mean, have you noticed that not a single person in this thread agrees with you and most have brought up factual REAL examples of why your speculation is inaccurate? Hell the only guy that came close to agreeing with you has now made it clear that he wants mods AND DLC, just not a fight between one and the other (not sure where he got that idea since nobody was fighting about that, but whatever) The VAST majority of the players on these forums want BOTH official paid-DLC AND mod tools. This is not and never was a 'one or the other' type of thing.

Greco
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Greco » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:08 pm

regomar wrote:
Greco wrote:
Obviously you have no manners. I will not fall in your level and start abusing you. You are exploiting the anonnymity that this forum offers to say whatever you want, however I don't blame you because lack of manners is not probably your own fault but of your parents which didn't managed to teach you them when you were young. Though I am sure, from your behavior that you are still very young. So I imagine that it is never too late to learn some manners! Please grow up.
Greco, I'm sorry, but you're the one inviting these kinds of posts. You're either trolling or (as I suspect) incredibly ignorant of how modding communities work to INCREASE interest in a game and its sequels.

Evidence of numerous successful RPGs and the companies that made them with heavy modding have been brought up and you ignore every one but Neverwinter, about which you made comments that were pointed out as being patently untrue and inaccurate. Not only did Neverwinter get amazing expansion packs that sold like hotcakes even with the modding that you're so fearful would destroy the company's interest in creating such content, the game got a sequel and it's dev went on to be one of the most successful development studios of all time!

Every point you have made on this thread; EVERY point, has been base speculation with absolutely no regard for fact or examples from the past. You think that too much user content will kill a re-emerging genre that has already been dead for over a decade? You mean just like how the hundreds of thousands of Doom maps and mods killed Doom back int he day? Like how the thousands of amazing mods killed Morrowind and Oblivion (which both got expansions and sequels)? Like how user-generated content has killed Amnesia: The Dark Descent? History proves you wrong on every example. Modding makes genres THRIVE and grow as well as their community. If ANYTHING makes a sequel to this game sell more, it will be embracing the modding community.


I mean, have you noticed that not a single person in this thread agrees with you and most have brought up factual REAL examples of why your speculation is inaccurate? Hell the only guy that came close to agreeing with you has now made it clear that he wants mods AND DLC, just not a fight between one and the other (not sure where he got that idea since nobody was fighting about that, but whatever) The VAST majority of the players on these forums want BOTH official paid-DLC AND mod tools. This is not and never was a 'one or the other' type of thing.
I do not know Regomar. Perhaps you are right. Not also that I am not against official content, though I prefer a complete game. Back in 2000 there were some very good expansions pack, was the term back then, for games like baldur gate, which I also played. It is that I fear that if the mods are not very good (after all Almost human has set the standard very high) there will be a fade of interest for the game. You know, as I said and in previous posts, sometimes not having content to play, may increase anticipation and interest for something. It is like serials on TV. I personally, couldn't watch more that 2-3 consequtive seasons of the same serial. I get bored because they are chewing over the same again and again and the serial loses its novelty. It is just a sense I have, nothing else, but I may be wrong.

seebs
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by seebs » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:47 pm

Could you point to a case in which you can show any support at all for this notion that the existence of poor mods would hurt sales? I mean, even one game, ever, in which there were a bunch of mods, some of which were pretty poor, and it made people dislike the game as a whole?

Because frankly this sounds crazy. And it makes no sense, and you're basically advocating that the most-wanted feature that thousands upon thousands of people bought the game for, and are looking forward to, ought to be completely scrapped and no one should be allowed to have that kind of fun, because with no evidence or support or anything you have imagined a possibility that if some of the people who use the feature aren't clever or devoted enough, they might make something you wouldn't want, and maybe potentially if a lot of people don't like the mods they will result in people losing interest in the game.

This makes no sense. We are talking a level of nonsensical where it would make more sense to imagine that you're from a competitor and trying to sabotage the game than that anyone who has ever played video games or watched other people play them would actually believe this.

affa
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by affa » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:25 pm

i thought the subject line was a typo.

I'd LOVE to see mods, user maps, etc.

Hotcakes
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Hotcakes » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:51 am

dazman76 wrote:EOTB did have some mechanics that might be hard to re-create
Assuming you're given basic access to the lua component and can tie that in to dungeon blocks (and I don't see how simple things like pressure plate-->open door could work without it) there shouldn't be any dungeon-based mechanic that couldn't be implemented in LoG. It would be more difficult to implement things like character banter in my estimated opinion.

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