Please not mods/DLCs

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
dazman76
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by dazman76 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:03 pm

Mods - or at least, new maps/levels - are a great way to increase interest for a game, and therefore sales potential for any official expansions/sequels. They keep players interested in the game, and keep them aware of it by allowing them to play it for longer after release. Also, developers who simply release "new content" as expansions or sequels don't always reap the rewards - content plus new features is the way to go, if you really want to make it worthwhile. The developers will always be able to offer more than modders or mappers, as long as they play their cards right - their work should never be devalued, even if community work is of the highest quality.
mrgaming4cheap wrote:I am doing an LP of this game and I want to see the developer do more maps for this game. If I decide to do an LP of another map then I don't want to risk getting a busted map made by a fan. Can you imagine an LPer putting up 20 episodes just to find a game breaking bug? And I don't mind paying for maps either. The developers are trying to put food on their table just like every one else. If I have to shell out a few dollars to play a new map then so be it.
Sorry, but I find it hard to make judgements on something like this, from the perspective of problems when making LP videos :) While such videos obviously do contribute to a game's exposure, many people still buy and enjoy games without ever touching an LP video. I also completely understand that this may be your hobby, your interest - but it's also an incredibly selfish perspective. "Don't allow user generated content, in case I struggle with making youtube videos" - that isn't what these decisions should be based on. New content is for the players - not for people making youtube videos, or even people watching those youtube videos. Very selfish indeed :)
Greco wrote:Do they involve any puzzles? I think they are both hasck and slash, quest based rpgs!
You're asserting that players cannot create puzzles - I have no idea where this notion came from, but it's wildly incorrect. There are at least two full Portal mods that contain amazing examples of Portal puzzles - they had rough edges at release, but they were fixed later. Game developers and designers are not super-humans - while they are obviously very talented, they are still just people like you and I. Do not be so hasty to devalue the skills of your fellow gamers :) Also, please kill this opinion that user-generated content somehow damages future official developments - this is absolute nonsense. If the developer of a game cannot bring enough to the table for a sequel, and is "outshone" by community work for the previous game - they clearly should not be developing more official content. I doubt very much that this is the case with LoG/AH, since they've done such an obviously good job with the first game :)

This whole thread seems to be founded on unsubstantiated claims and very rocky opinions of how user-generated content communities and developers work. It's almost like people are wearing tin-foil hats and reading "Ye Olde Game Development Prophecy", while checking tea leaves in the bottom of their cup...

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Saice
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Saice » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:04 pm

Greco wrote: Now they are making slowly their way back. Why? Because they are a lot of time out of the scene, and many people have started desiring them again. Too much of something kills everything. Sometimes when you miss something you feel more enthousiastic when you get it back. That's the point I want to make through this thread.
Well ok so you think mods will some how over load the scene then? I'm not truing to put words in your mouth I'm trying to figure out why the whole holy war on mods and dlcs is your thing.

I really still can't see that as an issue. 1 game with 100 mods would still just be 1 game. I do not fear that causing the Dungeon clawer market to dry up anytime soon. If anything a resurgence of this style of game would have a positive impact possibility making it a viable option of AAA company or other indies to bring new an clever games in this style to us. If anything if the modding community exploded all over Grimrock it would be a good thing giving other companies a clear sign that this is a style people want and will pay for.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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Hotcakes
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Hotcakes » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:05 pm

As someone who has finished the game, I would welcome the opportunity to give Almost Human more money for extra content. The faster they can churn out quality extensions and improvements, the better.

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Voidwatcher
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Voidwatcher » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:19 pm

I am also trying to understand what the OP has such an aversion against. Mods and DLCs increases the replayability of the game and also generates more funds for a small indie-developer. The more money they can generate, the higher the chances are that they can actually afford creating a sequel. The Dungeon Editor will also ensure that there will always be tons of new content for players to enjoy for many years to come, ensuring that the title lives on pas the original content.
Loktofeit wrote:
Greco wrote:
I don't doubt that there are there many people who can make interesting puzzles, but are these people willing to spend so much time? Perhaps you are right and I am wrong. Honestly, do you have any case of MOD/DLC for games other than puzzleless FPS and modern RPGs?


Here's two:

Wizardry 8 - Reforged
Neverwinter Nights - CEP Nexus


.


Do they involve any puzzles? I think they are both hasck and slash, quest based rpgs!
This is where I have to stop you. I cannot speak for Wizardry 8 Reforged as I have never played those titles. But as for Neverwinter Nights, oh you sure have missed out on a great deal here. Together with 3 other people we ran and managed a Persistant World where we would have sittings of leading our players through regular hack and slash as you call it but also tons of cryptic puzzles and riddles for them to solve. If anything Neverwinter Nights is what you make it. And you know what? It still lives on today, while it's successor was not as popular there are still mods and adventures being made for the first game. That was 10 years ago!
You can keep making your own points on how mods won't be beneficial to you, but let's make this clear. Not everyone wants the same thing. If you find mods and DLCs to be that cumbersome because you lack the time then you are not forced to make use of these editing tools. Instead play all the possible great content the fans will create while you wait for a sequel.

ziddersroofurry
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by ziddersroofurry » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:29 pm

I just had to chime in and say two things. First, definitely give us mod tools, tyvm. I have a ton of puzzles and traps i've been holding on to since my DnD DM'ing days in the late 80's that will fit this game very nicely. Plus, I plan on remaking Tomb of Horrors >:}

That, and games like Grimrock don't start out with an instant fanbase. The Grimrock devs have been busting their asses communicating with fans and spreading the word. Don't be so dismissive of all the hard work they've put into communicating with the gamers or the efforts of what was once a very tiny fanbase to tell everyone about this great game.

What this all comes down to is this-If you don't like mods, don't use them. If you're someone who does let's plays-why aren't you playing it all the way through first to check for glitches first, if you're gonna do a let's play of a mod you should expect that you might find glitches if you don't bother playing it first. That should be common sense.

The reason people will still buy DLC or expansions after the game comes out, despite mods, is that you really don't see many mods that add new models, textures, coding, voice acting, etc. Sure, some games get those kind of mods but they're usually games by developers that have a large fanbase and have been around a long time or have built solid fanbases, like Bethesda, or Obsidian, or Runic Games. Most modders can't compete with a studio when it comes to truly original content, so they do their best to support that developer. It's in the modders best interest to keep developers like these folks interested in supporting their products and making new products.

dazman76
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by dazman76 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:32 pm

I'm really tempted to try and re-create the EOTB dungeons when the editor arrives :) Should be mostly possible, although EOTB did have some mechanics that might be hard to re-create - like the "beams of light" that moved around and damaged you when you touched them, forcing a similar approach to the
SpoilerShow
follow-the-trapdoor-sequence puzzle.
Not sure if LoG has a mechanic to match that, but I haven't completed it yet so we'll see :)

Lmaoboat
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Lmaoboat » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:34 pm

dazman76 wrote:I'm really tempted to try and re-create the EOTB dungeons when the editor arrives :) Should be mostly possible, although EOTB did have some mechanics that might be hard to re-create - like the "beams of light" that moved around and damaged you when you touched them, forcing a similar approach to the
SpoilerShow
follow-the-trapdoor-sequence puzzle.
Not sure if LoG has a mechanic to match that, but I haven't completed it yet so we'll see :)
You could always use those things on the wall that shoot lightning or fireballs.

dazman76
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by dazman76 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Lmaoboat wrote:You could always use those things on the wall that shoot lightning or fireballs.
That might work if you could place them on ceilings/walls, but I'm not sure. Do you remember the beams I'm talking about? They were like big circular glass lights on both the ceiling and floor, and they placed a damaging entity on single grid squares for a set amount of time. You had to walk through in sequence, but only took damage if you stood too long on a square - might be tricky to do with projectiles coming horizontally. Well, maybe not - but tricky to 100% re-create the situation. I suppose you could also get away with trapdoors that drop into pits, but the damage is too light I think. Also, you'd then have to either teleport the player back "upstairs" to the same spot, or leave them to walk back. I first thought about teleporters under each trapdoor, but that would negate damage on falling I think?

Unfortunately the more we play with the idea, the further we get from the original mechanic :) heh. Maybe the game has something that is closer, but I haven't encountered it yet.

Lmaoboat
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by Lmaoboat » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:43 pm

dazman76 wrote:
Lmaoboat wrote:You could always use those things on the wall that shoot lightning or fireballs.
That might work if you could place them on ceilings/walls, but I'm not sure. Do you remember the beams I'm talking about? They were like big circular glass lights on both the ceiling and floor, and they placed a damaging entity on single grid squares for a set amount of time. You had to walk through in sequence, but only took damage if you stood too long on a square - might be tricky to do with projectiles coming horizontally. Well, maybe not - but tricky to 100% re-create the situation. I suppose you could also get away with trapdoors that drop into pits, but the damage is too light I think. Also, you'd then have to either teleport the player back "upstairs" to the same spot, or leave them to walk back. I first thought about teleporters under each trapdoor, but that would negate damage on falling I think?

Unfortunately the more we play with the idea, the further we get from the original mechanic :) heh. Maybe the game has something that is closer, but I haven't encountered it yet.
I never played it, but I was thinking you could either be chased by fireballs down a hall, or have a whole hall of them shooting across a single tile in a pattern.

HeavyMetalMonk
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Re: Please not mods/DLCs

Post by HeavyMetalMonk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:52 pm

Is this guy serious?

Seems too stupid, can't be true.

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