With regret

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
dazman76
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Location: Peterborough, UK

Re: With regret

Post by dazman76 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Tip no.1 for DM - don't walk into walls! :D

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gambit37
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Re: With regret

Post by gambit37 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:00 pm

seebs wrote:Just a warning: If you think LoG is frustrating, you are gonna be AMAZED by DM. And even more so by CSB.
Indeed!!! :D The players complaining that LoG is too tough have no concept of what tough is! If you want an uncompromising, fiendishly difficult dungeon crawler, Chaos Strikes Back probably beats them all :D

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luthur1964
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Re: With regret

Post by luthur1964 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:28 pm

This is an interesting post, and I am conflicted between my "light" and "dark" responses.

On the lighter side, I would encourage you to carry on. These early levels have limited "ranged" weapons, but find the "sling" if you can (I believe it is on the first or second level). It is good for these poisonous beasts on level 3 for two reasons: they only cast the cloud when adjacent to you. Additionally, the rocks fall to the ground after inflicting damage, so you can retrieve them before the beast falls, therefore you shouldn't run out of ammo. Now the room is relatively wide and long, allowing you to keep your distance and plug away at them. DO THIS - always stay far away and shoot, while looking for your escape route to the other side as they beast(s) approach. DO NOT stand next to them. Don't waste your time with earth magic and poison shield - after this level, no use, wasted skill points.

On the darker side, If you can't manage quick maneuvers with your left hand on the six Q,W,E,A,S,D buttons, at least after a good practice session, then you may be happier with having a friend play it with you, and you can enjoy it as a spectator. That may sound discouraging, however, allow me to put it this way:

I once bought a guitar. I really wanted to play. After lessons and practice, I realized that it wasn't for me, so I continue to watch my friends play it and I play the "applause" instrument. Oh well, I can still do other things well.

have fun at least. :D

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Kthanid
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Re: With regret

Post by Kthanid » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:35 pm

luthur1964 wrote:On the darker side, If you can't manage quick maneuvers with your left hand on the six Q,W,E,A,S,D buttons, at least after a good practice session, then you may be happier with having a friend play it with you, and you can enjoy it as a spectator.
Let me just throw out a slight modification of this suggestion:

Play the game with a friend, but split the duties up. What I mean is have one person control the keyboard and one person control the mouse. I spent my childhood playing games this way with my brother (and it was an absolute blast) and am presently playing through LoG this way with my wife (she's on mouse duty, I handle the keyboard).

While this may seem a little unintuitive at first (particularly for combat until you learn to get in sync), it allows you to focus on only a single task at at time and also lets you get really good at that one function (moving or fighting/casting). It's a ton of fun and makes the experience much more social. By not being forced to multitask, I think you'll find that you are much better able to successfully manage whatever aspect of the experience you are personally responsible for.

I personally recommend a beer or a good glass of wine in your off hand while your primary hand works the single input device you're in charge of. Good luck!

saethkept
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Re: With regret

Post by saethkept » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:15 pm

I expressed in another post my ability/willingness to sympathize with those for whom LoG's difficulty level equates walking away from the game, for good. That said and personally, it is my hope/vote that the devs change nothing in relation to the difficulty of combat, or puzzles, or character levelling. Admittedly, at points throughout the game I became extremely frustrated--so much so that I powered down and walked away, watched a movie or jumped into another game. Only difference so far as I can judge, between myself and the OP and some others, is a willingness to keep trying simply because LoG is not the first difficult or most difficult game I've played; I also truly found LoG atmospheric and refreshing enough to take the time to devise personal strategies to solve specific aspects of gameplay. The game is not impossible, although at points the devs may want players to think so. I think my motto for difficult computer games (with exceptions) would sound something like "The more challenging, the more rewarding".

Imo, I prefer LoG to remain as is...unless an optional lower difficulty level is implemented which does not effect standing core gameplay for those who enjoy it. Without intentional ruthlessness, I have to state that the trend post millennium of reducing the overall difficulty across generes of PC games is really disappointing and a case of imo selling out to what seems to be the "gimme now" modern paradigm. Just one example that comes to mind, largely because I thoroughly loved the game series, is the case of Gothic 1, 2 and 3 versus the recent Gothic 4. Why close an open gameworld, remove skill choice complexity, implement glowing arrows above quest NPCs, treasure chests and quest locations, and essentially rob the player of everything a fan of the series truly cherished? Do tutorials at the beginning of games really fail that often to explain core gameplay in terms a player can comprehend?
A second example, I was a huge fan of the King's Field series for the PS1-PS2; games that dumped the player into a very hostile, hauntingly beautiful fantasy world, and then expected him or her to figure "it" all out on their own. In my view, reviewers killed the KF series by complaining about the very game mechanics that made it so rich and rewarding. Of course From Software has developed a new series--Demon/Dark Souls--which I understand may be even harder than King's Field was...makes little sense, but I digress.

Irregardless, I hope the OP finds a happy medium and is able to complete the game. Otherwise, and selfishly considered for the best, the reviews of LoG have spoken well enough of the title that it is here to stay, hopefully no matter how much complaining occurs over its various aspects.

Hex
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Re: With regret

Post by Hex » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:38 pm

I have finished the game without any cheats. And it was fun.
Now I'm playing the custom dungeons, and now I feel that godmode is really necessary in some cases. Because not always the dungeon is well balanced, not always the dungeon is interesting. Some of the puzzles can be so boring and annoying.
So here's my solution: if you need to pass something that kills you each time, you may use party:heal() console command to become almost invincible.
Prerequisites: console is enabled in LoG.
The trick is based on the feature of the console commands: they work even in the pause. So, you'll be able to catch fireballs, press ESC for pause, heal yourself, repeat as many times as necessary. Also you can fight "bosses" by healing after each hit. Just be fast enough to press pause.

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Dr.Disaster
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Re: With regret

Post by Dr.Disaster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:45 pm

Hex wrote:I have finished the game without any cheats. And it was fun.
Now I'm playing the custom dungeons, and now I feel that godmode is really necessary in some cases. Because not always the dungeon is well balanced, not always the dungeon is interesting. Some of the puzzles can be so boring and annoying.
So here's my solution: if you need to pass something that kills you each time, you may use party:heal() console command to become almost invincible.
Prerequisites: console is enabled in LoG.
The trick is based on the feature of the console commands: they work even in the pause. So, you'll be able to catch fireballs, press ESC for pause, heal yourself, repeat as many times as necessary. Also you can fight "bosses" by healing after each hit. Just be fast enough to press pause.
I'm not sure if this post is troll or spam. Anyway, both might necro a thread which has been dead for 20 months only to talk about a console command anybody can find in the modding section.

In the unlikely case this is neither troll nor spam:
- learn how to play the game instead of cheating your way thru it; that's far more fun
- start your own thread instead of necroing dead and non-related stuff

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JohnWordsworth
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Re: With regret

Post by JohnWordsworth » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:58 am

Hex wrote:Now I'm playing the custom dungeons, and now I feel that god mode is really necessary in some cases.
I've found nearly all of the mod makers around here to be very happy to receive constructive criticism. I wouldn't lead with "boring and annoying" in your feedback, but if you provide polite feedback stating "I enjoyed the start of your mod, but found it frustrating to solve puzzle X because Y and Z were awkward to use / there was lots of running back and forth" then many mod developers would both appreciate the feedback and consider tweaking / improving the mod if possible. That's a win for you and them - they get to make a better mod and you'll get more fun mods to play :).

As a side note - It's really hard to properly balance game design elements, and it's even harder when you've played the same bit over and over 20 times to test it to make sure it's fun and accessible for new players, so feedback really is appreciated!
My Grimrock Projects Page with links to the Grimrock Model Toolkit, GrimFBX, Atlas Toolkit, QuickBar, NoteBook and the Oriental Weapons Pack.

Hex
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Re: With regret

Post by Hex » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:35 am

JohnWordsworth wrote:but if you provide polite feedback stating "I enjoyed the start of your mod, but found it frustrating to solve puzzle X because Y and Z were awkward to use / there was lots of running back and forth"
Sorry, I'm not interested in that. I play to enjoy, not to analyze and write comprehensive feedback, then persuade the modmaker, that my concerns are just and wait until the problem is solved. There are too many games, that I'd like to play besides LoG in this life.

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Dr.Disaster
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Re: With regret

Post by Dr.Disaster » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:02 pm

Hex wrote:
JohnWordsworth wrote:but if you provide polite feedback stating "I enjoyed the start of your mod, but found it frustrating to solve puzzle X because Y and Z were awkward to use / there was lots of running back and forth"
Sorry, I'm not interested in that. I play to enjoy, not to analyze and write comprehensive feedback, then persuade the modmaker, that my concerns are just and wait until the problem is solved. There are too many games, that I'd like to play besides LoG in this life.
That's too bad. When you think there are problems with a dungeon you should let it's maker know otherwise things will not improve.

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