Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairness

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
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mystrdat
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by mystrdat » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:44 pm

Jack Dandy wrote:The point is:
I don't expect, and neither do I wish for the developers to waste time on getting everybody and their grandmother to be able to play this.
At the end of the day, this kind of game is basically an action-RPG, and it should remain as such. A great balance between player skill, they way he plans the party's stats, and some healthy brainwork.

If some people are having trouble with the game, they should either get better, switch to easy mode, or simply find another game to play. Plenty of them out there, fitting all sorts of skill levels.

I think the dev's design choices were perfect for this game, and I see no reason on wasting time to "fix" it (dumbing it down) while there are other, far more important additions that could make the game even better.

Feel free to call me mean or intolerant or whatever.
I do agree with this. I can see it being a tremendous time waste to try and cater to everyone alive that could potentially play the game - not mentioning that the game's feeling could get easily lost somewhere on the way to achieve that. You don't see any other studio do that for obvious reasons.

seebs
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by seebs » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:46 pm

mystrdat wrote:
Jack Dandy wrote:The point is:
I don't expect, and neither do I wish for the developers to waste time on getting everybody and their grandmother to be able to play this.
At the end of the day, this kind of game is basically an action-RPG, and it should remain as such. A great balance between player skill, they way he plans the party's stats, and some healthy brainwork.

If some people are having trouble with the game, they should either get better, switch to easy mode, or simply find another game to play. Plenty of them out there, fitting all sorts of skill levels.

I think the dev's design choices were perfect for this game, and I see no reason on wasting time to "fix" it (dumbing it down) while there are other, far more important additions that could make the game even better.

Feel free to call me mean or intolerant or whatever.
I do agree with this. I can see it being a tremendous time waste to try and cater to everyone alive that could potentially play the game - not mentioning that the game's feeling could get easily lost somewhere on the way to achieve that. You don't see any other studio do that for obvious reasons.
At one point, you didn't see people offering difficulty controls or settings either. :)

I don't really know how a puzzle-difficulty setting would work, but I think it would be a really neat idea.

Fargol
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by Fargol » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:49 pm

cryocore wrote:
Fargol wrote:Actually I think you've forgotten what the discussion was about.

It's about options, not changes that affect everyone.

Let's say the game only had a 'hard' difficulty level, and is as hard as the game is now in the highest setting.

Would you object if people asked for easier difficulty levels? Because that would be making the game easier, by choice.

That's all people are talking about. Providing OPTIONS that enable some people to enjoy the game more.

Ultimately the devs will decide what to add and what not to. And while I believe these guys truly care about the game, and it's obviously a labor of love, it never hurts to make the game as appealing as possible.
it about what people are asking for.
I have no issue with difficulty options. Its when people are asking for things contrary to the fundamental design of the game I take issue with.
The timed puzzles are a deliberate and designed challenge. Someones inability to solve them or deal with them is the players issue. This game is designed to be challenging. Changing that defeats part of the purpose of the game.
As for the magic system its exactly the same. Its purposely designed to function in a specific fashion. It requires not only skill, but also the ability to multi task. Its a specific feature and again if a player struggles with it, its their shortcoming and they are basically failing to play the game as designed.

Difficulty options should only be about refining aspects of the game not removing core game play or specific design elements to pander to them. Should the creeps be removed too for those who cant cope with the combat.

There should always be an entry level to any game. If you cant meet that then go play something else.
Look at Dark Souls. It's punishing by design. Remove that and you destroy what makes that game what it is. Same here with the puzzles and magic system. They are there to provide a specific challenge. Player failure should be expected and if some stop trying to overcome it and want an easy out then they should not be playing the game in the first place as it was obviously not a game designed for their abilities/sensibilities or game play preferences.

The entry level? Games are updated all the time to adjust things. From what I understand, the timed puzzles are of the same difficulty regardless of what level you picked at the start.

And making some things options are NOT changing the fundamental aspect of the game. It's adding more options and would NOT impact your game at all.

You shouldn't even care. It doesn't affect you.

And even though you hate it (for some reason), I'm pretty sure the devs want to hear comments and feedback from the players and I bet they don't appreciate players telling other players what they should be allowed to ask for.

CrawlerJe
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by CrawlerJe » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:00 pm

I think a simple game speed slider would help greatly. Being a single player game, to me it is all about the players experaince. I can definatly feel for the people that are older, and slower, and eyes are not as good as they used to be...

and on that note.. why not add a boost in speed too for those young whipper snappers that think they can pull of super fast speed!

CrawlerJe
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by CrawlerJe » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:17 pm

cryocore wrote:


If you cant meet an in game challenge due to lack of skill, impatience, or some disability sorry but too bad.

wow.. i wonder can you be any more offensive?? Why on earth do you care how someone else enjoys a single player game if you can turn options on and off?? Can't handle the game go play something else.. that is truely a sad commentary for how others can enjoy a single player game.


the simplest would be a speed slider.. basically all it would do is slow the clock ticks.. It would play exactly like the same game, other than the speed would be more casual.. Not everyone that wants to play a game is a pro gamer, Nor has the speed and reflexes to play like one. If some person can get enjoyment by making the game move a pace that suits them.. why on earth does that bother you??


A timed puzzle would not be all that difficult if the speed was cut in 1/4.. maybe even 1/8th if that is what the person wanted.. (you know like tons of Strategy RPG's have used for ohh the last 20 years..) It is a single player game, and changing the clock would do nothing to change how the game plays, other than how fast it runs.. (which yes changes to a degree, but certainly not the core)

And maybe that clock tick can also be speeded up for the obvious pro that you are... you know to give you a slight challenge in what is clearly to easy for the pro's of the world...

Professor Paul1290
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by Professor Paul1290 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Having the option to slow down the game's speed would solve a lot of people's problems with the timing puzzles.

The puzzles themselves wouldn't have to change at all.

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regomar
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by regomar » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Fargol wrote:Actually I think you've forgotten what the discussion was about.

It's about options, not changes that affect everyone.
For the SECOND time, having the devs spend their valuable time adding your options that a VERY small vocal minority want takes away dev time from adding things that the majority can enjoy like new levels and the map editor. It absolutely DOES affect everyone. Period. Nothing you can possibly say changes that.

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Halk
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by Halk » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:23 pm

regomar wrote: VERY small vocal minority
How on earth do you know that it's a minority you ignorant prick?

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Drax
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by Drax » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:25 pm

Drax's guide to whether you should give a shit

Does the addition requested negatively affect your enjoyment of the current game?
  • Yes? Then objection! This feature is stupid.
  • No? Don't care then.
It's all very well to say "we want more dlc, mod tools, stuff!" but the people struggling with current content are unlikely to care about extra content.

CrawlerJe
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Re: Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairne

Post by CrawlerJe » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:27 pm

Professor Paul1290 wrote:Having the option to slow down the game's speed would solve a lot of people's problems with the timing puzzles.

The puzzles themselves wouldn't have to change at all.


great minds think alike... cause that is exactly what i said.. a simple slider to increase/decrease clock speed would solve the whole issue..

I'm sure they could ramp up the speed too, to make the game 5x faster and 10x harder for those that dare bump to +50%, or if they dare.. Double speed..

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