Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

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minmay
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by minmay » Sun May 31, 2015 6:11 am

LiveInABox wrote:
Azel wrote:
LiveInABox wrote:The game is what it is, what the developers intended.

The developers have actually contributed quite a bit to modifying the game to make it more than what it started off to be:
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9573
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9505

So, you are wrong again.
Some asset packs and 1 dev offering to implement changes on request to about 3 people?!? No I am not wrong and you are completely missing the point yet again. I won't explain why because I have the feeling you are the sort of person who must be right all the time...
I see you're interacting with Azel for the first time. Look at his post history, 95% is just trolling. You're wasting your time.
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Azel
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by Azel » Sun May 31, 2015 6:23 am

... minmay... do you believe Grimrock is a game for fine tuning spells or not? Cause that's what this discussion is about....

Oh and here is that 95% of my post history: http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9566

LiveInABox
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by LiveInABox » Sun May 31, 2015 7:37 am

Azel wrote:Asset packs and custom code that helped lead to fine tuning spells (among many other things) - which you denied Grimrock supported. You have absolutely no idea what you are trying to interject in this thread.

I don't think anyone cares if you openly admit to your complete failures in this discussion. I am merely pointing out observable facts while watching you juggle self-defeating red herrings. It's not about "being right" ... it's about understanding that both Grimrock 1 & 2 fully support fine tuning many game aspects.

And the "one dev" that you are trying to dismiss in that thread has done a lot more to expand and fine tune Grimrock than what your blind eyes fail to see. I would post more links but based on your deficiencies thus far it would clearly be a waste of time.
I never denied the game supported it stop making stuff up. I said it doesn't need it and the devs agreed with me otherwise they wouldn't have made the game as it is. So stop being dumb.

LiveInABox
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by LiveInABox » Sun May 31, 2015 7:45 am

minmay wrote:I see you're interacting with Azel for the first time. Look at his post history, 95% is just trolling. You're wasting your time.
yeah I figured as much.

Azel
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by Azel » Sun May 31, 2015 8:17 am

LiveInABox wrote:I never denied the game supported it stop making stuff up.
You specifically said that this is not the game for it, but now you're saying that it supports it. Logic only dictates that if the game supports it, then it is the game for it. Very simple. ...
LiveInABox wrote:I said it doesn't need it and the devs agreed with me otherwise they wouldn't have made the game as it is.
...Just because someone doesn't do something doesn't mean they fully support the exact opposite of its existence. Case in point, the dev's made the Firearm skill, made guns, but then put very little ammo in the game. Sometimes things just happen, but luckily we can fix them later!

...So while you claim that the dev's did not fine tune spells, I will easily point out the fact that the dev's went out of their way to provide a platform that allows the rest of us to fine tune them.

...

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6742

There's much more than magic that needs fine-tuning. Such as the impact of Evade and Protection, as their effectiveness is virtually polar opposite of their implementation in the first Grimrock game. But you can keep hanging on to the main campaign of Grimrock 2 as though it somehow validates your attempt to pigeonhole the entire game and platform. I wonder, are you still on version 1.0 of the game? Because it's up to 2.2.4 now...

But in all seriousness, it appears that the only reason you hold your stance about the impact of fine tuning spells in Grimrock (or even Modding in general for this game) is because you don't see much need or benefit in the games current combat system implementation. However, I do believe that with some fine-tune spell crafting, the current game could be much more enjoyable. In the end, why would you want to dismiss someone who would rather run around wreaking havoc with spells all day, as opposed to using melee weapons to square dance or kite monsters endlessly?

What was your main combat strategy in Grimrock? And do you really believe that a more fine-tuned spell system would have no benefit, both in terms of technique and fun-factor?

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Komag
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by Komag » Sun May 31, 2015 11:51 am

This thread is getting somewhat derailed, please stop
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LiveInABox
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by LiveInABox » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:21 am

Azel wrote:In the end, why would you want to dismiss someone who would rather run around wreaking havoc with spells all day, as opposed to using melee weapons to square dance or kite monsters endlessly?

What was your main combat strategy in Grimrock? And do you really believe that a more fine-tuned spell system would have no benefit, both in terms of technique and fun-factor?
I would use what is most useful no matter how cheap. It is the devs job to not make it cheap. Fun doesn't come into it if something is much more efficient. My main combat strategy? In Grim 1 it was casting ice spells and ranged combat before the melee dance. In Grim 2, pretty much the same except I used fire.

And yeah I believe that.

p.s. saying something isn't for the game is not the same as saying it doesn't support it.

Taem
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by Taem » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:25 am

I see the devs still haven't addressed any of the concerns of myself or others for this game since the last time I was here, roughly half a year ago or longer. That's a real shame, as I'd like to recommend this game to my friends and colleges, but can't support a game the devs have abandoned since they started raking in the cash, preparing for the next cash cow of gr3. I won't even bother resurrecting my list of concerns, as I won't be back unless gr3 vastly improves upon gr2's pitfalls. This game really has so much potential; such a shame ggg choses to leave the games further development to modders instead of showing any real interest in fine tuning this current game to perfection, but its not at all unexpected considering the Evasion abuse of gr1, which was left unfixed. In regards to the topoc, Gr1 was far more polished than gr2 in every imaginable way except the graphics.

minmay
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by minmay » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:31 am

What was the "Evasion abuse" in Grimrock 1? I'm not aware of any bug related to evasion.
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karadoc
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Re: Which did you prefer, Grimrock 1 or 2?

Post by karadoc » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:50 am

As far as I'm aware there is no evasion bug, but popular opinion is that evasion in GR1 is too powerful.

Taem, since you're dishing out heavy-handed criticism but not wanting to re-raise the issues, I scanned through your post history to see what your major concerns were. What I found was this thread, and a lot of aggressive sounding posts (by you) responding to people who apparently disagreed with you. (I haven't checked to see what those other people actually said.)

Is that it? Are you seriously accusing the devs of cashing out and abandoning the game because some characters types are more powerful than others? We're talking about a game which is essentially alone in the genre, and which has extensive modding support. Almost Human obviously are not in this for the money. This type of game is niche. It is not a cash-cow. And while releasing modding tools is great for players and the gaming community, it can make it harder for devs to sell expansions and add-ons. They may not have made balance changes, but they have continued to support the game after release with bug-fixes and continually improving modding support. They are not in this for the money.

I agree that there are some imbalances in the game; but it is not a major problem. Firstly, because the imbalances are relatively minor. Most of the balance issues don't become apparent until the end of the game anyway. Secondly, because deliberately leaving a game unbalanced can be a legitimate design decision. Not every skill-tree has to be equally viable. Maybe you think they should be, but it's certainly not a fundamental requirement of game design that everything be balanced. Your balance suggestions are opinions; and maybe the devs don't share those opinions. Or maybe they do agree but have chosen stability in balance rather than equality.

The balance issues are not glaring problems. To say that you can't recommend the game to anyone because the developers have not tweaked the game exactly the way you want it... sounds to me a bit self-centred and petty. And to accuse the devs of abandoning the game is completely unjustified. I agree with you that the game is not perfect, and I share your opinion that it could be improved with some balances changes. But I strongly disagree with the aggressive way you've expressed yourself.

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