Question about monsterattacks

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Orthocone
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Question about monsterattacks

Post by Orthocone » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:47 am

After a longer break I'm back (to Grimrock 2). Yesterday after reaching the cemetary I was a little bit astonished. My party : ratling rogue, minotaur barbarian, insectoid battlemage and a lizardman alchemist. Difficulty level : Normal.

So far there were no problems, all party members at the front have protection of about 90 (after "Shield"). Some guys were tough enemies but I had no dead party member during the whole run until then (party level 9 now). But then came zombies. Before I could realize it they killed my rogue within the first attack round. Could this be true? Is protection 90 worth nothing against some monsters?

I read about some guys talking about protection 100 or higher but that's not really a choice for a quick and deadly rogue. (In my imagination a plate mail rogue isn't really an option ;) , even if it's possible to create one). And of course there are situations where the party cannot simply step out ot the way of an attack. I won the fight naturally but my experiment to reach the final combat without any killed party member was blown away.

Can those guys really attack so hard that they can kill a level 9 ratling rogue within the first attack round? Or was is simply bad luck?

minmay
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by minmay » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:19 am

An undead's attack cycle is 4 hits. At level 1 they have 19 base attack power each, which I believe is theoretically up to 228 damage (if all of them roll max damage and critical) if they are level 1 and on normal. Their attack also has 7 armour piercing. Higher level ones, of course, will have more attack power (+6.33 per level).
In general you cannot "tank" in Grimrock (at least not on hard, haven't tried the other difficulties).
This is okay, because there is literally one place in the game where you are basically required to get hit. It's strictly optional, and it's by the weakest monster in the game. It happens when you pick up the arquebus. All other instances of damage in the game can be avoided, even getting all items and secrets. In most cases, this does not even require using consumables or spells (there's one place in the cemetery, and one place in one other area, where either bombs, force field, or invisibility are basically needed to avoid damage, but bombs are available to all characters regardless of skills).
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Orthocone
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:24 am

Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Orthocone » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:01 am

O.k.

As mentioned I had no problems 'til then. So the zombie was a bit of an surprisingly overpowered enemy to me. It's hard to imagine, that a zombie can hit harder than a stone golem f.e. (I killed the last of the the four in the secret area from face to face with a level 5 party :evil: .)

But that bad luck will not prevent me from winning the game (I hope). I'll try a run with no dead members after my victory again.

Rya.Reisender
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Rya.Reisender » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:23 pm

Hm, I don't really remember having problems with Zombies. They are quite slow.

Also with your party setup, wouldn't you usually put the Rogue in the back row (Accuracy 2) and the battle mage in the front row?

Orthocone
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Orthocone » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:38 pm

I'll think about a different group later. Now this party has to win the prize.

(Because I found out magic seems to be very strong I thought about a 4 wizard insectoid party already.)

Neutronium Dragon
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Neutronium Dragon » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:38 am

You don't need to change the group membership, just the party formation.

The battlemage, if he's armored, will probably be more durable than the rogue in light/no armor. A shield-and-orb/staff combination works quite well for them if they're acting as a meat shield, and they can cast just as well from the front row.

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Dr.Disaster
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Dr.Disaster » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:58 am

Neutronium Dragon wrote:You don't need to change the group membership, just the party formation.

The battlemage, if he's armored, will probably be more durable than the rogue in light/no armor. A shield-and-orb/staff combination works quite well for them if they're acting as a meat shield, and they can cast just as well from the front row.
A well equiped battlemage using a wand/orb and the Shield spell can reach 120 to 130 protection. This will help but against monsters with multiple attacks per cycle/turn one should still consider what minmay said:
minmay wrote:In general you cannot "tank" in Grimrock (at least not on hard, haven't tried the other difficulties).

Orthocone
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Orthocone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:50 am

I understand the game mechanics, guys, and I accepted them or I wouldn't play the game. Grimrock 2 is a good one.

But as an old RPG-Veteran I have problems to imagine this:

There is a knight in full plate mail on one side. On the other an unarmored fist-fighter. What can happen? The knight is too slow to hit effective and the unarmed guy can hit but not cause injuries. (Maybe after a few rounds because the armored fighter gets stunned, but not immediatly). So why can a zombie (even if he's quick) penetrate a very high protection so well, that he's able to kill a guy in one round?

It's hard to understand, even it's a fantasy game ;) .

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skugge
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Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by skugge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:15 am

Orthocone wrote:I understand the game mechanics, guys, and I accepted them or I wouldn't play the game. Grimrock 2 is a good one.

But as an old RPG-Veteran I have problems to imagine this:

There is a knight in full plate mail on one side. On the other an unarmored fist-fighter. What can happen? The knight is too slow to hit effective and the unarmed guy can hit but not cause injuries. (Maybe after a few rounds because the armored fighter gets stunned, but not immediatly). So why can a zombie (even if he's quick) penetrate a very high protection so well, that he's able to kill a guy in one round?

It's hard to understand, even it's a fantasy game ;) .
I was surprised a little by this too. But the difficulty for me at least is welcome. You can get a bit over-powered mid-game on normal difficulty if you have a strong party.

Orthocone
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:24 am

Re: Question about monsterattacks

Post by Orthocone » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:33 pm

Hell !!! A new dimension of difficulty appeared ...

Pyramid of Umas. Looking through a gate I saw lots of forcefields with snakes. I had a bad feeling but like an idiot I stepped into the teleporter and died. Surrounded by 4 snakes and two gorgons.

Unfortunately I needed the resurrection crystal earlier within meditation hall.

The room was not essential, right? (I was just too greedy.)

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