No Tux No Bux

Talk about anything related to Legend of Grimrock 2 here.
badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by badhabit » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:41 pm

Azel wrote:Well it's too bad that your brain stopped at only one Wikipedia page, but I wouldn't expect much from someone so dedicated to endorsing bad information.

LSB is a superset of POSIX, it's literally based on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base

You should be ashamed that one Wikipedia linked completely obliterates the argument you made with another Wikipedia link. Then again, I sense that you are way too lacking in brain power to understand what just took place.

There is a full white-paper on the effort to resolve the differences between LSB/POSIX to further conform to a common set of standards: https://personal.opengroup.org/~ajosey/tr28-07-2003.txt

And as far as standards are concerned, this exchange perfectly illustrates how you set the standard for terrible information and willful ignorance. I look forward to your next attempt to win an argument via Hyperlinks to content you clearly do not understand. 8-)
What the f... ? The LSB AIMS for this things only but failed hard to bring the distros to agree on them the last 15 years! (and your document is 11 years old? are you serious?)

The distros ignore the LSB, the distros ignore posix if suitable, the distros deviate in the FHS, they deviate in the libs, in DE in everything.... even Linus is pissed for his Dive app! (around minute six)

Azel
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by Azel » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:53 pm

I know the reference document is old, it was used to further add to the direct co-relation between LSB and POSIX. Which is a fact that you are still running from. It seems that bringing together the two Wikipedia links regarding LSB and POSIX sent you into a tailspin. Two world's collided and now you're freaking out; kinda like when a kid finds out Santa isn't real for the first time.

You made it seem like LSB is an entirely different standard than POSIX. You were wrong. LSB is based on POSIX, and now you wanna hit Reply hoping to win the debate via Last Word.

Hey you know what, here are better arguments to help prove your point:

1) LSB is spelled differently than POSIX
2) OSX is spelled differently than Linux

Right? I mean gosh, who could think there are similar standards when the acronyms and abbreviations themselves use entirely different letters!

:shock:

User avatar
Asteroth
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:41 am
Location: Eastern U.S.

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by Asteroth » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:56 pm

*Big yellow sign*

POINTLESS FLAME WAR! STAY AWAY!
I am the God of darkness and corruption.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4250

Azel
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by Azel » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:35 pm

Asteroth wrote:*Big yellow sign*

POINTLESS FLAME WAR! STAY AWAY!
LSB + POSIX > Asteroth

:lol:

minmay
Posts: 2656
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:24 am

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by minmay » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:51 pm

badhabit wrote:And the bickering against DX (without providing a similar stable and universal alternative)
You mean like OpenGL?
badhabit wrote:Everything MS is evil? as DX is made from MS it must be evil and should be forbidden to be used...
Very few people have this position, the typical anti-Direct3D positions are that 1. using it narrows the market, pushing away non-Microsoft products, that it's proprietary and therefore very difficult to implement, and that it develops slowly compared to OpenGL.
But at the metaphorical end of the day it turns out that making money is kind of important for most people, and for a game developer, using Direct3D tends to be a better way to make money - at the very least, most gamers use Windows and don't install OpenGL drivers and will therefore get terrible performance on an OpenGL application because of the terrible OpenGL drivers bundled with Windows.
Grimrock 1 dungeon
Grimrock 2 resources
I no longer answer scripting questions in private messages. Please ask in a forum topic or this Discord server.

badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by badhabit » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:56 am

minmay wrote:
badhabit wrote:And the bickering against DX (without providing a universal alternative)
You mean like OpenGL?
Short answer: opengl substitutes only d3d, the rest is missing
Long answer: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/qu ... er-windows
minmay wrote:
badhabit wrote:Everything MS is evil? as DX is made from MS it must be evil and should be forbidden to be used...
Very few people have this position, the typical anti-Direct3D positions are that 1. using it narrows the market, pushing away non-Microsoft products, that it's proprietary
Both problems are solved with Wine, cross-platform and non-proprietary. No reason to bicker around anymore, a industry accepted quality standard, cross platform and open source.

blackjudas
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:48 pm

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by blackjudas » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:03 am

I very much dislike this post from the very first post. Yes, I'm massively disappointed about this news, it seems that my paying for Grimrock 1, 3 times didn't increase the average to make Linux a viable platform.

Don't attack developers, especially ones who don't have massive budgets and simply squeak by. I will also vote with my money, but if you're going to be an asshat, go elsewhere. Always remember, running linux instantly turns you into a whatever-class citizen, do not feel for one moment entitled to anything for our beloved platform, that is the choice you made.

Gah!

Rithrin
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:03 am

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by Rithrin » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:49 am

The best way to get developers to port or natively develop in Linux is not to say "Unless you do so, you won't get my money", but to instead say "I love your product, and will pay three times (or more) standard fare to get a Linux version from you!".

It's true that you need to "vote with your wallet" to affect change in the marketplace, but so many people assume that to mean "withholding payment" rather than "paying more". If you are supportive of the developers and offer incentives (rather than threats!), they'll be more likely to cater to you.

Look at the organic food revolution happening in the restaurant and grocery market - the reason companies are jumping through metaphorical flaming hoops to deliver non-GMO, pesticide- and chemical-free products is that people are paying double, triple, and quadruple prices for them. I think these people are foolish but, hey, the market is catering to them and not me.

User avatar
afettouhi
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:08 pm
Location: Odense S, Denmark
Contact:

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by afettouhi » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:38 pm

badhabit wrote:
minmay wrote:
badhabit wrote:And the bickering against DX (without providing a universal alternative)
You mean like OpenGL?
Short answer: opengl substitutes only d3d, the rest is missing
Long answer: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/qu ... er-windows
minmay wrote:
badhabit wrote:Everything MS is evil? as DX is made from MS it must be evil and should be forbidden to be used...
Very few people have this position, the typical anti-Direct3D positions are that 1. using it narrows the market, pushing away non-Microsoft products, that it's proprietary
Both problems are solved with Wine, cross-platform and non-proprietary. No reason to bicker around anymore, a industry accepted quality standard, cross platform and open source.
Wine is lightyears behind MS on DX implementation. DX9 is mostly complete but DX10 highly experimental still and DX11 is non-existent currently in wine. Also performance in wine is mostly only half of windows but there patches to fix that but haven't been accepted into the mainline wine-tree yet. So telling developers to write to wine for MAC & Linux would give sub-standard ports that nobody wants to buy.

cr0ne
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:44 am

Re: No Tux No Bux

Post by cr0ne » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:04 am

Longtime Linux dev and gamer here...just had to make an account for this.

PC gamers as a group should be pushing to get games on as many platforms as possible - and stick to open APIs wherever possible. Windows market share has been slowly shrinking for the last decade...does anyone really think it won't continue to shrink for the next 20 years? Windows isn't the future - I gaurantee you within 10-15 years Windows will no longer be the dominant platform for PC gaming.

I am not necessarily saying it will be Linux/SteamOS either, but any move away from Windows-exclusive whether it be to Linux, Mac, or ideally both deserves and has been receiving appreciation and goodwill from the hardcore gamer community. I hope the Grimrock team realizes that supporting Tux pays off not just in terms of direct sales but also in the form of wider promotional coverage. Each of us Linux nerds count as 10 people when it comes to spreading word of mouth! :)


P.s. I will patiently await a Linux port although I'm a big enough Grimrock fan I may find myself needing to play on Wine if we're still here a year from now with no Linux version in sight.


P.s.s. If you end up doing a port...as long as it runs on Ubuntu we can figure out the rest. Most Linux users understand they are on their own if they aren't using Ubuntu.

Post Reply