Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

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Azel
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Azel » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:33 am

Love the Monty Python reference, Isaac. That's an era that few still appreciate. You get points for that for sure, but you also confirmed your age which is why I think you talk down about Bethesda games so much. I am old enough to remember and love Monty Python, but not so old as to think all these "new games" are 'fast food garbage." Did you see last nights South Park? We gotta avoid being a "Grampa" :D

Have you at least played and beaten Morrowind? If not, you really are missing out on some awesome RPG experiences. To put it better: Morrowind is to RPG's as Monty Python is to comedic parodies.

minmay
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by minmay » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:41 am

Grimrock 1 dungeon
Grimrock 2 resources
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Azel
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Azel » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:33 am

Damn you, minmay! Damn you too heeeelllll!!

My favorite comment in that vid:
"i laughed so hard i shit a little"

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Isaac
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Isaac » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:31 am

Anurias wrote:You do make for a convincing black knight Isaac.
Context man, context. :)
The quote was "Alright we'll call it a draw" ~after announcing "Victory is mine"; it should be obvious no?
Azel wrote:Love the Monty Python reference, Isaac. That's an era that few still appreciate. You get points for that for sure, but you also confirmed your age which is why I think you talk down about Bethesda games so much.
Talk down about them?

McDonalds food may be crap, but it's technically impressive crap, made to suit a mass consumer-base looking for a quick meal. I certainly never said that it didn't taste good. ;)
*Though I make a point of rarely eating there, I have (and still) stop in occasionally (if there is nothing better around).

I'd call the last two TES titles crap RPGs... but they are impressive simulations ~equally tailored to a mass-audience that is not really looking for a roleplaying game; they are looking for an action adventure where they get to play at being a warrior-wizard... One of the principle complaints of Morrowind is often the combat, because it's dependent upon the character's stats and skills, and when the character misses the target ~they think it's broken. In Oblivion/Skyrim, the character never misses unless it's the player's fault ~even if they are completely inept with the weapon. Image
*Those players don't want a roleplaying game, they want a simulator. In such games the character is a hindrance; Bethesda implements them as a formality that can be forgotten about... Hence they are crap RPGs.... but they are great simulators. TES is TES; Bethesda's unconscionable act was ruining the Fallout series by continuing it as a re-skinned TES game in almost every way that matters. This was for the market that wanted TES in a different setting. :evil:

I am old enough to remember and love Monty Python, but not so old as to think all these "new games" are 'fast food garbage." Did you see last nights South Park? We gotta avoid being a "Grampa" :D
You assume a hell of a lot, and I guess you convince your self of your assumptions about other people's motives. No game is trash for being new ~absurd; but not everything new isn't trash or inherently better for being new... Just look at Coca~Cola... are you old enough to remember the days before "New Coke"?
Have you at least played and beaten Morrowind? If not, you really are missing out on some awesome RPG experiences. To put it better: Morrowind is to RPG's as Monty Python is to comedic parodies.
I own every Elderscrolls game save RedGuard (unless I don't know of it). The developers responsible for Morrowind are not the Bethesda we have today. Alas, I've not managed to stay interested in any of them for more that a couple of hours. The one I played the most was Oblivion while awaiting FO3.
Skyrim...
Image
Most of that is mod testing; might even have left the game running overnight. I remember racking up 5 hours attempting serious play when I first got it.

Azel
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Azel » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:31 am

woooaah, slow down turbo. Someone had a Red Bull for dinner, eh? :shock:

You describe an entirely different experience than I had with Bethesda titles - as well as the experience of others who deemed their titles worthy of Awards. I mean, I get the concept of the Mc Donald's comparison, but when is the last time Mc Donald's won a "burger of the year" award? The comparison is a good jest, but the moment real thought engages the comparison falls apart.

What you describe is not a majority opinion, nor does it represent the opinion of some elite few masters of all things RPG. It's just how you feel for your own reasons. And as another poster pointed out, when we take your grievances and pair them up against the Grimrock games, it doesn't really make sense as to how you would prefer Grimrock over Elder Scrolls; based solely on your grievances.

I feel they are entirely different animals, Grimrock vs Elder Scrolls. Regardless, I would want Grimrock to yield as much success - if not more - than the Elder Scrolls; and I imagine that if Grimrock ends up with 4, 5, or 6 titles that one or two of them will fall short of appeasing everyone.

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Asteroth
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Asteroth » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:18 am

It's kind of funny and sad that the three threads with the most recent posts as I type this are:

1. Grimrock 2 impossible for some.
2. Legend of Grimrock 2 annoyances.
3. Ways to improve Grimrock 2.

Ouch.
I am the God of darkness and corruption.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4250

Anurias
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Anurias » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:47 am

Isaac wrote:Context man, context. :)
The quote was "Alright we'll call it a draw" ~after announcing "Victory is mine"; it should be obvious no?
Was pretty obvious to me... you declared victory, but then you decided to call it a draw and in the same breath parallel a scene from a movie where the guy that called the draw realized that he had lost, but couldn't admit it because he was already so invested that he couldn't afford to lose... You want to be seen as the victor, but came off as the guy that claims to be invincible even though all his limbs are being chopped off.

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Isaac
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Isaac » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:57 pm

Azel wrote:You describe an entirely different experience than I had with Bethesda titles - as well as the experience of others who deemed their titles worthy of Awards. I mean, I get the concept of the Mc Donald's comparison, but when is the last time Mc Donald's won a "burger of the year" award? The comparison is a good jest, but the moment real thought engages the comparison falls apart.
You actually believe GOTY awards? You believe this when there is profit incentive? You believe this in spite of 'gamergate'? Seriously?
What you describe is not a majority opinion, nor does it represent the opinion of some elite few masters of all things RPG. It's just how you feel for your own reasons. And as another poster pointed out, when we take your grievances and pair them up against the Grimrock games, it doesn't really make sense as to how you would prefer Grimrock over Elder Scrolls; based solely on your grievances.
What are you talking about exactly? What grievances? TES is not a failed game ~it's designed that way, but it's [purposely] a poor RPG... The premise behind it is to support a fantasy world simulation in 3D ~that's not an RPG. Image; it's equivalent to a themepark experience ~West-World as a 3D game ~That's the player in the park in the park personally, not roleplaying. Bethesda's games are theme park experiences because that's what their audience craves... You impose a limited character on them (even one they shape themselves), and you've crossed the line with them. Hence ~all of the character options in TES are implemented as minor bonuses... Skill in those games does not mean competence or enablement, it means 'easier'. In Oblivion your character can be master of all guilds ~even opposing guilds. This is player catering over plausibility; this is because their games are loathe to say "No" and risk ire. The point of the product is to continue the simulation at the expense of all else... This is why there are options to completely respec committed character choices ~while keeping the accomplishments they achieved with different stats and abilities. These games are not about roleplaying, they are digital cosplay. [That in itself is not bad, but call it what it is.]
I feel they are entirely different animals, Grimrock vs Elder Scrolls.
They are. Image
Anurias wrote:
Isaac wrote:Context man, context. :)
The quote was "Alright we'll call it a draw" ~after announcing "Victory is mine"; it should be obvious no?
Was pretty obvious to me... you declared victory, but then you decided to call it a draw and in the same breath parallel a scene from a movie where the guy that called the draw realized that he had lost, but couldn't admit it because he was already so invested that he couldn't afford to lose... You want to be seen as the victor, but came off as the guy that claims to be invincible even though all his limbs are being chopped off.
You read it literally. There was no draw, it's both a quote reference from the clip, and to the spite of the quoted post; and the behavior that the Black Knight exhibits. Did you believe that "Awlriight" was accidental misspelling?

Azel
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Azel » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:51 pm

Isaac wrote:You actually believe GOTY awards? You believe this when there is profit incentive? You believe this in spite of 'gamergate'? Seriously?

You believe that there is no profit incentive with Grimrock? Seriously?

Besides, I don't just "believe" in Awards with some blind devotion, silly man. I agree with the awards after playing the games myself.

For some reason you keep typing up observations about an Elder Scrolls game, follow up by describing what you believe to be a limitation, and then act as though you proved something. It's hilarious.

This is you: "People believe it's sunny weather outside, but last week it was clearly raining, that's not sunshine and rainbows, that's digital cosplay."
:lol:
Isaac wrote:What are you talking about exactly? What grievances? TES is not a failed game ~it's designed that way, but it's [purposely] a poor RPG
Your grievance is that it's a poor RPG. No actual proof, just something you keep saying like a parrot.
Isaac wrote:The premise behind it is to support a fantasy world simulation in 3D ~that's not an RPG.
There's another of your personal and imagined grievances. Also, Grimrock is a dungeon crawler simulation in 3D - that's not an RPG. An RPG can very well take place in a fantasy world simulation (whether 2D or 3D). That's actually a requirement these days, like MMORPGS (MMO - fantasy world simulation, combined with RPG). You may not believe in modern day RPG's, but then again you just replaced the word "RPG" with "fantasy world simulation" and convinced yourself a contradiction exists :?:
Isaac wrote:it's equivalent to a themepark experience ~West-World as a 3D game ~That's the player in the park in the park personally, not roleplaying.
You mean you somehow manage to go INSIDE your computer to literally be in the game, like physically? :lol:
Isaac wrote:Bethesda's games are theme park experiences because that's what their audience craves...
Grimrock is a theme park experience too (a dungeon crawler theme park), and the audience craves more as seen via Mods.
Isaac wrote:You impose a limited character on them (even one they shape themselves), and you've crossed the line with them.
In Grimrock there are multiple character limitations, especially in the leveling system. Not to mention that in Grimrock you can't even "see" your characters!
Isaac wrote:Hence ~all of the character options in TES are implemented as minor bonuses...
Same holds true for Grimrock. Some of the character classes aren't even worth playing due to bad implementations, like the Knight and Wizard classes. Bonuses like Energy gains are almost a joke in Grimrock; and at least half the skill tree is irrelevant.
Isaac wrote:Skill in those games does not mean competence or enablement, it means 'easier'.
Just like using Invisibility and Force Field in Grimrock, and even the Rage Spell for making things as easy as possible. It's entirely possible to do a single character run with all "hard" options yet still beat the game with ease - using simple tactics like kiting and hiding. Taking this approach, the game loses what little RPG aspect it has and becomes more about individual player theme park tactics.
Isaac wrote:In Oblivion your character can be master of all guilds ~even opposing guilds.
In Grimrock a magic user can master all Elements, even opposing elements.
Isaac wrote:This is player catering over plausibility; this is because their games are loathe to say "No" and risk ire.
The same would be said about Grimrock, for the same reasoning. Even the introduction of "food" in Grimrock is caused by not being able to say "No" to player requests.
Isaac wrote:The point of the product is to continue the simulation at the expense of all else... This is why there are options to completely respec committed character choices ~while keeping the accomplishments they achieved with different stats and abilities.
And the Console in Grimrock lets you spec in absolutely every skill in the game with one simple command. That's even worse since at that point even the simulation has been sacrificed at the expense of all else.
Isaac wrote:These games are not about roleplaying, they are digital cosplay. That in itself is not bad, but call it what it is.
Well based on your reasoning the exact same can be said about Grimrock, although it's much worse since the simulation is limited to a dungeon crawler. Lets not forget that you can't even see your characters, so fans couldn't "cosplay" with Grimrock if they wanted! Bethesda titles are much more immersive, and implement far more core RPG elements, which allows for full cosplay. Oh but I'm talking about real world cosplay, you were talking about "digital cosplay." There's another term for that, RPG.

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Isaac
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Re: Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

Post by Isaac » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:30 pm

Azel wrote:...
Prove any of it ~please, by all means prove a word of it.
Your posts are but automatic gainsaying to whatever the other person states; and laced with acridity as further insult. You make accusations seemingly without the slightest interest in the points expressed; make deliberate false leaps in hopes or deriding the other person. It's amusing to watch, but I'm stunned that you are still allowed to post.

Your tactic above seems to rely on accusing to force some unnecessary defense for accusations you've invented, rather than observed [or even invented from ~whatever~ you observed; for surely the observation doesn't matter to you, it seems to mean whatever you want it to]. When I say that GOTY is meaningless, you questioningly accuse me of believing some double standard for Grimrock ~that you came up with... Do you actually expect that I should offer a response to it; or that no response is some sort of implied guilt for not responding? :?

You posit supposed grievances of mine that you outright assume or invent. If I stated that pipe wrenches were poor hammers, would you think that was a grievance against pipe wrenches?

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