Grimrock

petri wrote:I still don't see a bug here. The special attack and double throw are both triggered in this case. You can see that the axe deals more damage than with a normal attack. It's a little bit inconsistent because shurikens do not trigger double throw (volley overrides double throw). Am I missing something?

That's the point: it might be intended that both are triggered but they are NOT both triggered. When a Double Throw it doable it's done instead of the Special Attack. The damage numbers displayed when monsters get hit only exceed the throwable's max damage when it's a critical hit. The Special Attack can deal up to twice the damage without the need to crit which it indeed does when Double Throw is not possible.

I double checked and still can't see the bug. I have Throwing Axes and Rocks equipped, Throwing skill at 5th level. I'm doing typically 20-50 damage with normal attacks with the axes (using double throw). When I do the Power Throw special attack (and double throw at the same time) I'm getting damage values sometimes close to 100. These are non-critical hits.

EDIT: also I tried unequipping the rocks and it does not seem to affect the damage of the Power Throw.

After minmay posted this

Power Throw (Throwing Axe): 1 second buildup, energy cost 30, attack power 36, armour pierce 10, cooldown 5

I now understand what the problem is: only the weapons own(!) damage is doubled while the description suggests otherwise!
This results in an additional 0..18 damage by the special attack. That's pretty lousy for 30 energy.

So it's indeed no bug that i could hardly see a difference between normal and special attack paired with double throw.

Dr.Disaster wrote:I now understand what the problem is: only the weapons own(!) damage is doubled while the description suggests otherwise!
This results in an additional 0..18 damage by the special attack. That's pretty lousy for 30 energy.

Sounds like you still don't understand, because 18 attack power doesn't correspond to 0..18 damage. I don't know what the exact formula is but it corresponds to 18 more damage on average (before protection, etc. are applied).

minmay wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote:I now understand what the problem is: only the weapons own(!) damage is doubled while the description suggests otherwise!
This results in an additional 0..18 damage by the special attack. That's pretty lousy for 30 energy.

Sounds like you still don't understand, because 18 attack power doesn't correspond to 0..18 damage. I don't know what the exact formula is but it corresponds to 18 more damage on average (before protection, etc. are applied).

i wrote "additional 0..18 damage" but true, i don't know the formula either. it just appears to not be worth it.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

minmay wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote:I now understand what the problem is: only the weapons own(!) damage is doubled while the description suggests otherwise!
This results in an additional 0..18 damage by the special attack. That's pretty lousy for 30 energy.

Sounds like you still don't understand, because 18 attack power doesn't correspond to 0..18 damage. I don't know what the exact formula is but it corresponds to 18 more damage on average (before protection, etc. are applied).

i wrote "additional 0..18 damage"

18 additional attack power doesn't correspond to 0..18 additional damage, either. 18 attack power is 18 damage on average, 36 attack power is 36 damage on average. Thus power throw is 18 more damage on average (before other modifiers like protection and critical hits), not "0..18 more damage"; it can add more than 18.

In LoG 2 the Throwing Axe is listed to do "9 to 27 damage + Strength bonus".
The item's definition says it does 18 damage so i guess the rng damage formula ranges between .5 and 1.5. This would match the 9 to 27 listed. In that case the special attack with attack power definition being 36 would have a damage range of 18 to 54.

Now the character i used while observing this does 34 to 86 normal attack damage with a Throwing Axe.
Given the above numbers hold he should do 43 to 104 damage with the Special Attack.

Dr.Disaster wrote:The item's definition says it does 18 damage so i guess the rng damage formula ranges between .5 and 1.5. This would match the 9 to 27 listed. In that case the special attack with attack power definition being 36 would have a damage range of 18 to 54.

this is true

Dr.Disaster wrote:Now the character i used while observing this does 34 to 86 normal attack damage with a Throwing Axe.
Given the above numbers hold he should do 43 to 104 damage with the Special Attack.

this is not true, it would be 43 to 113; you are ignoring the high half of the curve

oops added the wrong max value