Legend of Grimrock 3

Talk about anything related to Legend of Grimrock 2 here.
Azel
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Azel » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:09 pm

vlzvl wrote:I agree on this but only if LoG2 was a lot more open and filled with, you know, people, cities and life!
One can create of course an endless game, a Dungeon Hack clone, full of catacombs but this actually isn't so interesting as long characters have a finite level of advancement.
With a world filled with life, stories and the feeling you're special on it, this could work a lot better but i sense not so good on an Isle. My opinion.
This is why MMO (the really endless CRPGs out there) having such success; they're based on a lively world.
Completely agree. And I imagine that with the increased popularity, and sales $$$ to match, this could very well be realized in a future release of Grimrock. Although I think that there needs to be a heavier focus on the character class system as well as the magic system in Grimrock before it can approach anything CRPG related. These are core components of any CRPG, moreso than NPC interaction in my opinion.

For funsies, here's a good articled on CRPG's:
http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/03/ ... -crpg.html

While an absolutely amazing game, currently Grimrock is very "basic" in its RPG elements; where only 2-3 spells might get used in the end-game, an entire magic line (Earth) has been useless in both LoG releases, and currently only 2 character classes are at the top of the list when it comes to effectiveness: Barbarians and Alchemists.

All these recommendations, wants, and desires are most certainly a testament to just how close to the brink of Top Dawg this game truly is. I find it fascinating that despite its RPG limitations, the community openly discusses more of what they love as opposed to forums filled with gripes and complaints. :D

AaronLannister
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by AaronLannister » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:20 pm

I would love it if it was similar in some ways as Wizardry on the PS2 (Wizardry Tale of the Forsaken Land) and Etrian Odyssey on the Nintendo DS.

One main hub Various Dungeons, quests, Random Monsters, and a more fleshed story.
Maybe even a random dungeon generator

The main hub
Where you can spend gold to revive
replenish items
possibly switch out characters and create new ones midway.
Save etc...

Maybe a little Less focus on Puzzles but more on exploration and killing monsters.

I don't know when Grinding became such a taboo thing in Dungeon Crawlers.

AaronLannister
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by AaronLannister » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:29 pm

Rithrin wrote:
okamiyazaki wrote:Something I would really like to see is further improvement of environments. I did like the extremely long dungeon in Grimrock 1 but I feel like the dungeons were sufficiently deep enough in 2 and the outdoor area made up for it.

When I say improvements for environments - I mean more uniqueness, more tilesets, and more vistas that make you go 'wow', like Castle Nex did for me when I first saw it. For example, in the Grimrock 2 dungeons, there wasn't (for the most part) anything too special at the end of most of them and they were fairly repetitive after a while. I was bored with the Ruins of Desarune about halfway in. I would like to see something such as a cave that turns into a ruin, then opens up into some massive chamber with buildings, or goes into some secret outdoor area, etc. That's always really fun to me- delving into dungeons and finding incredible things within, besides more stone walls and loot. Demons, dragons, lost cities, etc.

I think they could add some more unique boss fights too. There were many fun bosses in Grimrock 2 but there could have been more. I like creative fights with traps or even puzzles being a part of the fight.

And of course I'm hoping for more classes and abilities, maybe new races.

I would love for them to use the same composers... The music was incredible.
I think they could find a pretty good solution that satisfies those who preferred LoG1's gigantic dungeon style and those who preferred LoG2's varied environments/open world in a sort of Underdark style module. For Grimrock 3, you could become trapped underground somehow. The party would always be underground, in caves, which lead to abandoned subterranean cities, mushroom forests, claustrophobic caves with tight passageways, or wide open chasms filled with lakes. That's definitely an environment that I'd love to explore.
Would LOG fans be against having actual Towns or a Hub Town? You would still have Vast Dungeons but also quests, vendors and other things. Something a long the lines of NPC's in certain places like Dark Souls would be pretty nice too.

Azel
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Azel » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:53 pm

At this point, I just want to "see" my characters!

Rithrin
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:03 am

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Rithrin » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:18 am

AaronLannister wrote:
Rithrin wrote:
okamiyazaki wrote:Something I would really like to see is further improvement of environments. I did like the extremely long dungeon in Grimrock 1 but I feel like the dungeons were sufficiently deep enough in 2 and the outdoor area made up for it.

When I say improvements for environments - I mean more uniqueness, more tilesets, and more vistas that make you go 'wow', like Castle Nex did for me when I first saw it. For example, in the Grimrock 2 dungeons, there wasn't (for the most part) anything too special at the end of most of them and they were fairly repetitive after a while. I was bored with the Ruins of Desarune about halfway in. I would like to see something such as a cave that turns into a ruin, then opens up into some massive chamber with buildings, or goes into some secret outdoor area, etc. That's always really fun to me- delving into dungeons and finding incredible things within, besides more stone walls and loot. Demons, dragons, lost cities, etc.

I think they could add some more unique boss fights too. There were many fun bosses in Grimrock 2 but there could have been more. I like creative fights with traps or even puzzles being a part of the fight.

And of course I'm hoping for more classes and abilities, maybe new races.

I would love for them to use the same composers... The music was incredible.
I think they could find a pretty good solution that satisfies those who preferred LoG1's gigantic dungeon style and those who preferred LoG2's varied environments/open world in a sort of Underdark style module. For Grimrock 3, you could become trapped underground somehow. The party would always be underground, in caves, which lead to abandoned subterranean cities, mushroom forests, claustrophobic caves with tight passageways, or wide open chasms filled with lakes. That's definitely an environment that I'd love to explore.
Would LOG fans be against having actual Towns or a Hub Town? You would still have Vast Dungeons but also quests, vendors and other things. Something a long the lines of NPC's in certain places like Dark Souls would be pretty nice too.
For me? Yes. I believe a lot of people hold a similar view. I won't say "I'm right", obviously, but will say that the lack of friendly NPCs is part of Grimrock's 'mystique' for me. Frankly, the Island Master was pushing it a bit for me already. It's not simple revulsion towards characters, but simply that it's obvious the engine of Grimrock wasn't meant to handle it. In Grimrock 1, a creature was telepathically sending you direct one way messages and it made sense to manifest those as one line text messages on the screen. In Grimrock 2, one character speaks to you directly, but you hear no sound, see no lip movement, just the same old quickly fading text message on the screen. It's rather jarring, actually. There would be no way to implement friendly NPC / quest givers in a smooth, polished way without putting a massive development effort into it.

So adding some open world village or city scares me for two reasons:
1) The effort to implement NPCs in a smooth way might fail and the game turns into something resembling Might & Magic Legacy. Or, worse, no effort is put into changing how NPCs work in the Grimrock engine and it feels like they just hastily and unprofessionally tacked it on.
2) They rework the NPC system, it works swimmingly, but the lonely, claustrophobic, survival-esque feel of the game disappears. Goodbye, Grimrock!

I'd rather the developers just work on perfecting what they already have, reworking the class and skill system, making better puzzles, and simply giving us another great environment to explore, instead of diverting their energy into something risky.
Azel wrote:At this point, I just want to "see" my characters!
I like the forced first-person perspective. They should just hire artists to do dozens of character portraits rather than the handful we have now.

Azel
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Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Azel » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:04 am

I enjoy the first-person perspective. I'm fine with it staying that way forever, I just wanna "see" my characters in some way; any way.

Acceptable examples:
1) Being able to pan out with the camera for some sort of 360 view; nothing that would be feasible during combat, just a "look"

2) A simple "character doll" within the Inventory Screen (maybe even a rotatable interactive doll to see new gear)

3) Just put a damn mirror somewhere in the game and I'll stand in front of it making different gestures :lol:

minmay
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Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by minmay » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:12 am

Maybe someone will make a mod with character models attached to the party.
Grimrock 1 dungeon
Grimrock 2 resources
I no longer answer scripting questions in private messages. Please ask in a forum topic or this Discord server.

Azel
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Azel » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:28 pm

minmay wrote:Maybe someone will make a mod with character models attached to the party.
Now you're talking!

Regarding NPC's,

I actually agree with a lot of Rithrin's assessment. I will add, though, that Grimrock's evolution (from the first game to the second) is very similar to the Myst adventure series. I brought Myst up in my "Food vs Puzzles" thread, but I am referring to it again here for an entirely different reason: NPC interaction.

In the first Myst game you were entirely alone, with the occasional exposure to another life via books with animated recordings (recordings of the 2 brothers in the storyline). The primary feel of the first Myst game is being "stuck alone" on an Island. Very eerie/mystique feeling throughout the game.

In Myst 2, you actually get to experience people who exist in the same environment as you for the first time. Islander's hide in their homes when you come near, some annoying dude shows up every so often, and of course, the main "Island Master" stays in contact with you as needed. At no point do you ever "click" to interact directly with an NPC as found in standard RPG's (at best, a mouse click only triggers a dialogue loop), they are simply characters you get to observe outside the standard game mechanics. Grimrock works this way to: such as triggering the Island Master peeking at you through the Temple "peep hole" multiple times. This form of NPC interaction worked for Myst, and it maintained it right up until the final game.

I can see Grimrock following the same route, which I believe is a good thing. For example, I wouldn't imagine a buying/selling NPC in the Grimrock world. Instead, I would see a room with an NPC that has a repetitive series of dialogues based on triggers in the environment. So if you brought the NPC a specific "item" and place it in a certain location, a new trigger would activate, and the NPC would give you a new piece of armor, weapon, etc. They could provide a key to a chest only after a certain trigger event took place, leave to unlock a door, reveal a secret wall, etc.

The Island Master in Grimrock is an NPC, and he worked very similar to NPC's in the Myst games. In its current state, the possibilities are virtually endless as to how Grimrock could implement more NPC's with outstanding interactions. Far beyond what Myst was ever capable of, all due to the fact that Grimrock is multi-genre.

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Komag
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Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Komag » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am

AaronLannister wrote:I would love it if it was similar in some ways as Wizardry on the PS2 (Wizardry Tale of the Forsaken Land) and Etrian Odyssey on the Nintendo DS.

One main hub Various Dungeons, quests, Random Monsters, and a more fleshed story.
Maybe even a random dungeon generator

The main hub
Where you can spend gold to revive
replenish items
possibly switch out characters and create new ones midway.
Save etc...

Maybe a little Less focus on Puzzles but more on exploration and killing monsters.

I don't know when Grinding became such a taboo thing in Dungeon Crawlers.
I really like this flavor/direction - I personally would welcome an occasional reprieve from the loneliness and isolation, where the party can swap stories, get some news, and take on a new quest.
Finished Dungeons - complete mods to play

Dematto
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Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:13 pm

Re: Legend of Grimrock 3

Post by Dematto » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:12 am

More Puzzles. New monsters. more/new spells. All standard stuff, as far as I'm concerned.

What about...
maybe I'm a jerk for suggesting it. But what about DLC for Grimrock 2? Game was cheap enough, I'd throw some more money at them for a dev-created canonical module. See where teh party ends up, yeah?

I might also toss them a little money for a downloadable helpfile/tutorial that explains a lot of different functions and logic for scripting. Although I really might be the only one. The community seems to have things well under-wraps.

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