To makers of game, my five cents and suggestions...

[ByFstugan]

I'm not sure where to put this, but I how you devs read here and this is a good place to post. I've just finished the game and wanna give my opinions to it - and first I wanna say that the game in it's package is REALLY good I think, but in my opinion it really could need some fixes - and most of all an expansion or more

POSITIVE RESPONS:

* Great charachter creation with the races and traits.

* Very neat interface and graphics, imo perfect level of details - to real looking will loose the feeling I think.

* I also like the open world solution very much.


THINGS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE OR WERE BAD:

- WAY to little NPC's to kill - often felt like you run into places someone else must been clearing out to 90% just before you entered.

- When coming closer to the end boss there should be much more and harder minions to protect him before the end fight, here it was almost none and that's really really wierd.

- There could very well be some effects or videos when killing big bosses, like the dragon on the roof - now it just dissapeared if I'm not mistaken?

- Far fetch solutions, to little logical clues for them - or maybe I'm slow and missed them? Some when I heard the solutions I didn't even get why I should do that (like the three levers to open the door in Castle Nex).

- To easy to exploit Herders Den and here is a suggestion for a fix for such place(s):
1) There should be like a maximum number of monster in such place that respawns again and again, and each time gives less and less XP/loot so that soon enough it's no use farming the place.
I got my team to lev 17 and the farmer to lev 25 there in just about 9 hours effective farming - and I was only like halfway in to game and heard others end up at lev 14.
2) Another way to solve it is that you gain less and less XP for monsters of lower level (like a relative XP-gain, your level vs monster level), but I'd prefere the above solution.

- I missed some information in game, like for example how much do I gain to take water magic 4 and 5 for my skills, as far as I saw there were no info about that.


THIS WOULD IMPROVE THE GAME I THINK:

+ I MISS: More stage boss's here and there, dropping good loot.

+ I MISS: Side quests giving XP and items. I was a big fan of the Might & Magic series (from 6 and forth), there they had this and it was a great ingridiens that added much to the game imo.

+ A bit more skillpoints in the end I'd prefere, I think it was way to few of them eventhough I was lev 19 in the end (25 on the farmer).

+ Could very well need an expansion that just add things to the game like Diablo-series had.

+ Also take another turn in a much harder level with same gang (also like Diablo), another run with same team is something else than a restart on a harder level - I know the later exist.

+ Maybe Cleric/Priest/(Paladin) with healing abilities would be an alternative also as in the old games. Seems now the Alchemist has replaced them, maybe both could be in game so one could choose playstyle?


Still a great game, but in my opinion would be much more great with some fine adjustments. And I really think the base of it is so good that you should make expansions to it instead of making LoG3. Why not add a whole new world that builds out the one here... or even open up deeper levels in the existing one?

[Isaac]

My own 5 cents is that a dungeoncrawler map should stand on its own ~sans monsters, before adding monsters to it. I much prefer a location with something to hide, over a location with obvious threats; combat should not be the point of play, but rather, that monsters are simply in the way of progressing through the area, or [less commonly] that they can facilitate passage. They should be an obstruction, rather than the reason to explore. Boss battles can be fun, but should not be commonplace, or predictably expected IMO. In all of 'Eye of the Beholder', there was but one boss battle* in a 12 level dungeon, against a lone opponent; the rest of the game was traversing the labyrinth and finding out its secrets.

*I don't think the Blue Mage really counts as a boss, but just a delayed hostile that talks first.

In Lands of Lore... The Droricle Caves saw the party make the dangerous trek through the cave, and then at the end ~have audience with the Droricle and then leave.... No boss fights; [but the game did have them].

I think that an LoG3 could learn much from Lands of Lore, and Stone Prophet; and Realms of Arkania. Although I don't know if the Grimrock games should try to be as much RPG as the RoA games.

[Sir Tawmis]

POSITIVE RESPONS:
* Great charachter creation with the races and traits.
* Very neat interface and graphics, imo perfect level of details - to real looking will loose the feeling I think.
* I also like the open world solution very much.

Agree with all three of these!

THINGS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE OR WERE BAD:
- WAY to little NPC's to kill - often felt like you run into places someone else must been clearing out to 90% just before you entered.

See, for me - I think they do it right. Granted, you're in a dungeon - but the spaced out monsters made it feel more realistic to me. While I love games like Wizardry, I always wondered why so many monsters bunched together (sometimes even teaming up against my party) weren't killing one another for food/space? So the spaced out monsters, I thought felt pretty good.

- When coming closer to the end boss there should be much more and harder minions to protect him before the end fight, here it was almost none and that's really really wierd.

The Ratling Mini Boss did a good job of this, I thought.

- There could very well be some effects or videos when killing big bosses, like the dragon on the roof - now it just dissapeared if I'm not mistaken?

I am okay without cut scenes, personally. In some games, I feel they work (where there's a real sense of world development; but for dungeon crawlers, where it's a matter of just surviving and solving riddles, I don't feel that need). I admit, I wouldn't HATE it if they had an occasional cut scene; I just don't feel it's needed.

- Far fetch solutions, to little logical clues for them - or maybe I'm slow and missed them? Some when I heard the solutions I didn't even get why I should do that (like the three levers to open the door in Castle Nex).

Some of the riddles are indeed pretty tough.

- To easy to exploit Herders Den and here is a suggestion for a fix for such place(s):
1) There should be like a maximum number of monster in such place that respawns again and again, and each time gives less and less XP/loot so that soon enough it's no use farming the place.
I got my team to lev 17 and the farmer to lev 25 there in just about 9 hours effective farming - and I was only like halfway in to game and heard others end up at lev 14.
2) Another way to solve it is that you gain less and less XP for monsters of lower level (like a relative XP-gain, your level vs monster level), but I'd prefere the above solution.

While I think this could be fixed with a patch and be done with it; I've always liked, personally, when these things happen. Because it's like a hidden way of building up your characters, if you're inclined to repeatedly kill the same thing over and over. So you can build up your characters, if you can tolerate the boredom of killing the same monsters over and over. So these little glitches - one or two - in a game, I think are fun. But ultimately, probably need to be fixed.

The problem with your first solution, is that it would have to be specific to that room/area... Because you may encounter more of those monsters outside of the "farming" area.

THIS WOULD IMPROVE THE GAME I THINK:
+ I MISS: More stage boss's here and there, dropping good loot.

Everyone loves good loot.

+ I MISS: Side quests giving XP and items. I was a big fan of the Might & Magic series (from 6 and forth), there they had this and it was a great ingridiens that added much to the game imo.

There is not a lot there (in Grimrock) to give side quests; other than notes and such... or if you're inclined to get complete armor sets.

+ Could very well need an expansion that just add things to the game like Diablo-series had.

Anything that gets more Grimrock is always a good idea.

+ Also take another turn in a much harder level with same gang (also like Diablo), another run with same team is something else than a restart on a harder level - I know the later exist.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a Difficulty setting in the game?

+ Maybe Cleric/Priest/(Paladin) with healing abilities would be an alternative also as in the old games. Seems now the Alchemist has replaced them, maybe both could be in game so one could choose playstyle?

Hah. Many ask about clerics. I did a lot time ago. I think the Cleric would eliminate the Alchemist (which can be funner, since you're gathering herbs to make cure wounds, cure poison, etc, rather than relying on someone to magically heal you)

[Sir Tawmis]

My own 5 cents is that a dungeoncrawler map should stand on its own ~sans monsters, before adding monsters to it. I much prefer a location with something to hide, over a location with obvious threats; combat should not be the point of play, but rather, that monsters are simply in the way of progressing through the area, or [less commonly] that they can facilitate passage. They should be an obstruction, rather than the reason to explore. Boss battles can be fun, but should not be commonplace, or predictably expected IMO. In all of 'Eye of the Beholder', there was but one boss battle* in a 12 level dungeon, against a lone opponent; the rest of the game was traversing the labyrinth and finding out its secrets.

I think that an LoG3 could learn much from Lands of Lore, and Stone Prophet; and Realms of Arkania. Although I don't know if the Grimrock games should try to be as much RPG as the RoA games.

I agree. I think the dungeon sets the atmosphere; but the problem comes, that unless you get XP for finding hidden items, solving puzzles, all the XP is going to be coming from killing monsters (in the case of Grimrock, since there aren't really NPCs to say, "Find my son in the woods and bring him back to me!" and giving you XP for completing small side quests). And while, yes, I love a good dungeon crawl; a lot of my enjoyment also comes from developing my character (whether it's new armor and weapons) or - with what requires XP - new skills and spells.

[ByFstugan]

THINGS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE OR WERE BAD:
- WAY to little NPC's to kill - often felt like you run into places someone else must been clearing out to 90% just before you entered.

See, for me - I think they do it right. Granted, you're in a dungeon - but the spaced out monsters made it feel more realistic to me. While I love games like Wizardry, I always wondered why so many monsters bunched together (sometimes even teaming up against my party) weren't killing one another for food/space? So the spaced out monsters, I thought felt pretty good.

Well. There are many responses to this.

First - the bigger the area, the bigger the need of more monsters to not make it feel deserted. As I said - my feeling many times were that the places was 90% cleared by someone else. I don't mean that it should be in Diablo levels, but the old dungeon crawler games didn't give me this deserted feeling.

Second - the setting is often that the world you're in are under some master-evil or similar - hence they would be united under him and not fight internally.

Third - even seperat areas, like the sewers, could easily be understood as they got their own agenda and their own territorium to defend, and that place is "their ground" that other monsters don't visit to fight (which they don't either in the game).

Fourth - We don't see any monster hunting for food, so why should they fight eachother for food?

[ByFstugan]

- When coming closer to the end boss there should be much more and harder minions to protect him before the end fight, here it was almost none and that's really really wierd.

The Ratling Mini Boss did a good job of this, I thought.

You must have misread me here. I talked about when coming closer to the END-boss, how his quarter should have more and more bodyguards the closer to the chief we got. The Sewer is not even close to the end boss, it's like "going away from him and climb down in a basement taking us even further from him".

The Ratling boss was a good ingridient though, but not a solution to this matter. This is more that each level of the Castle of Nex should be harder and harder until you reach the roof with the boss.

[ByFstugan]

- There could very well be some effects or videos when killing big bosses, like the dragon on the roof - now it just dissapeared if I'm not mistaken?

I am okay without cut scenes, personally. In some games, I feel they work (where there's a real sense of world development; but for dungeon crawlers, where it's a matter of just surviving and solving riddles, I don't feel that need). I admit, I wouldn't HATE it if they had an occasional cut scene; I just don't feel it's needed.

I can agree with the "CUT scenes" - they are not necessary.

But it could be more like when you come to the "Forgotten River" and for the first time see the island master on his dragon, when the dragon sounds and he flies away (that part I REALLY liked) - that in similar way there were a "death-scene", and in LoG2 even better if it was a hint that the Island Master didn't really die here.

To me the fight on the roof ended with a anti-climax, sad to say - though it's obvious you got both the engine and the skills to make such things I ask for in the game here and there and not only once.

[ByFstugan]

- To easy to exploit Herders Den and here is a suggestion for a fix for such place(s):
1) There should be like a maximum number of monster in such place that respawns again and again, and each time gives less and less XP/loot so that soon enough it's no use farming the place.
I got my team to lev 17 and the farmer to lev 25 there in just about 9 hours effective farming - and I was only like halfway in to game and heard others end up at lev 14.
2) Another way to solve it is that you gain less and less XP for monsters of lower level (like a relative XP-gain, your level vs monster level), but I'd prefere the above solution.

While I think this could be fixed with a patch and be done with it; I've always liked, personally, when these things happen. Because it's like a hidden way of building up your characters, if you're inclined to repeatedly kill the same thing over and over. So you can build up your characters, if you can tolerate the boredom of killing the same monsters over and over. So these little glitches - one or two - in a game, I think are fun. But ultimately, probably need to be fixed.

The problem with your first solution, is that it would have to be specific to that room/area... Because you may encounter more of those monsters outside of the "farming" area.

The problem with "The problem with my first solution" is that my suggestion was just that, specific to an area - it should be "a maximum number of monster in such place" (i.e Herder's Den cave) where you have monsters with identity like "big muschroom 1.1" (and also 2.1, 3,1) up to the maxium number there could be at same time there, let's say it's 99 now. When 1.1 up to max 99.1 is all dead it would respawn "Big Muschroom 1.2" (and also 2.2, 3.2) up to the max, and this time they would give less XP/loot.

I'm rather sure a similar system was in an old game I played, but can't recall which - but it can't be a problem to fix. There would also be other ways to solve the exploit.

[ByFstugan]

THIS WOULD IMPROVE THE GAME I THINK:
+ I MISS: More stage boss's here and there, dropping good loot.

Everyone loves good loot.

And extra bosses ... Here was the Ratking a good one, but more such master of domains there should be was the main issue - not the loot (but without loot it would be a bit anti-climax of course). The big dudes in the Pyramid desert was also good here.

[ByFstugan]

+ I MISS: Side quests giving XP and items. I was a big fan of the Might & Magic series (from 6 and forth), there they had this and it was a great ingridiens that added much to the game imo.

There is not a lot there (in Grimrock) to give side quests; other than notes and such... or if you're inclined to get complete armor sets.

I'm not sure if you got me right here. Have you played "Might & Magic 6" and the later? What I talk about is that there are other NPC's in the game, like an family missing their child to a pack of villains in another area or just about anything you can make up. Would also be nice with a quest log then, as I'm sure you must have seen in other games. In those they could be called "main quests" (which LoG2 has) and "side quests" (which I talk about).

The notes you mentioned are just clues to solve puzzles, mainly to get the end quest solved (i.e to get to the next power gem). I'd like alot more optional quest that are like quests, like extra adventures in a bigger adventure - especially connected to other NPC's that can say "help me" and "thank you".