[MOD] LABYRINTH OF LIES - v3.6 Release

Talk about creating Grimrock 1 levels and mods here. Warning: forum contains spoilers!
wagtunes
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: [MOD] LABYRINTH OF LIES - v3.6 Release

Post by wagtunes » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:25 am

HypnoToad wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:59 am
If you watch the authors videos, he is very very good at fighting, he can move his players around with ease during a fight, reminds me of this kid we knew years ago, he would complain that video games were not hard enough. We thought yeah right until one day at our house my son was playing Speedball on the old Amiga. This kid had a go and was actually playing with the game itself, that is he was toying with it, we hadn't seen anything like it, so what's hard to someone (like me) maybe easy to someone else.
Well, the point is, as a designer it's probably a good idea to make your game for the masses and not for the top 1%, Otherwise, people are going to get frustrated and give up.

I finally did get through this but not without cheating like hell. Ultimately, it wasn't all that satisfying but it was my only option. When you have to deal with creatures that can kill you in 4 shots and there are 6 of them, well, you do the math.

All that aside, still the most intriguing and exciting dungeon crawler I've ever played.

But I'll stick with Bloodwych. It doesn't fall too short and it's beatable.

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Isaac
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Re: [MOD] LABYRINTH OF LIES - v3.6 Release

Post by Isaac » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:45 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:25 am
Well, the point is, as a designer it's probably a good idea to make your game for the masses and not for the top 1%, Otherwise, people are going to get frustrated and give up.
Eh... that depends on the game; and whether or not it's made for the top 1%—(or top 30%). The old adage goes that you cannot please everyone, and it's partly because that in pleasing one group, you can annoy another; like with mutually exclusive gameplay, and difficulty levels.

LoG1 got a lot of flak for a certain Iron Door challenge, because a large percentage of players had quite a difficult time with it. There isn't a great solution to this ~problem?~. If you make the challenge easier, then it might become trivial for the other players; any reduction at all, actually makes it less of a challenge to them.

The Iron Door I mentioned (IRRC) is not a requirement to proceed. This is the best way to have it IMO; to have optional (more difficult) challenges for those that want them. But this doesn't help with the segment of players that expects to have access to everything in the game, yet cannot manage to pass the challenges that deliberately withhold those areas of the game. :?

wagtunes
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: [MOD] LABYRINTH OF LIES - v3.6 Release

Post by wagtunes » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:27 am

Isaac wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:45 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:25 am
Well, the point is, as a designer it's probably a good idea to make your game for the masses and not for the top 1%, Otherwise, people are going to get frustrated and give up.
Eh... that depends on the game; and whether or not it's made for the top 1%—(or top 30%). The old adage goes that you cannot please everyone, and it's partly because that in pleasing one group, you can annoy another; like with mutually exclusive gameplay, and difficulty levels.

LoG1 got a lot of flak for a certain Iron Door challenge, because a large percentage of players had quite a difficult time with it. There isn't a great solution to this ~problem?~. If you make the challenge easier, then it might become trivial for the other players; any reduction at all, actually makes it less of a challenge to them.

The Iron Door I mentioned (IRRC) is not a requirement to proceed. This is the best way to have it IMO; to have optional (more difficult) challenges for those that want them. But this doesn't help with the segment of players that expects to have access to everything in the game, yet cannot manage to pass the challenges that deliberately withhold those areas of the game. :?
I absolutely understand what you're saying. I've been playing these dungeon crawlers since the early 90s. Late 70s if you want to count Atari 2600's 4 Worlds.

And no, you can't please everybody. But have you played this mod? Unless you have, you can't possibly understand what I'm talking about. And it's not a question of completing everything. I haven't. There are many levels I haven't even gone to. But the skill required to finish this game is beyond my capabilities and that's WITH all my years of experience.

And yes, with the console hack, I did get through it. But it was kind of pointless.

I am now trying to finish Daedulus Of Damned Souls which, while not very difficult as far as puzzles and creatures, has an ending that must have a million possibilities to solve. I've made it down to the last level. I've killed the Cube. I have all the golden treasures. Nothing triggers. I've tried putting the treasures on alters. I'd be guessing at solving this for years at this rate. Great crawler, but this final puzzle is beyond a head scratcher.

Anyway, I'm going to open up and thread, hoping somebody has played this and can help me finish it.

wagtunes
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: [MOD] LABYRINTH OF LIES - v3.6 Release

Post by wagtunes » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:41 am

I double checked. DoDS I'm on level 10. Have no idea how to get to level 11. I have combed all of level 10 and there are no more stairs going down. So it must be a teleporter that you have to activate. Have no idea how.

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