[MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.3 released

Talk about creating Grimrock 1 levels and mods here. Warning: forum contains spoilers!
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SpiderFighter
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by SpiderFighter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:19 am

I'm enjoying this so far, Billick; nice work! I like the quirky sense of humor and the layout of the floors, especially how the player travels between floors. I'm a sucker for that style of design (as you'll see in my own work). I also enjoyed the Snail King fight...very creative!

Specific things I've noticed:
SpoilerShow
  • - Snail King's room: Metal door sliding through wall

    - "Will not leave with the flesh of my brothers:" Very cool idea, but player can just set them down, sidestep back onto the plate, pick them all up and move on as normal. Maybe move the door one tile into the tunnel and have a second plate as a check?

    - Coming back up from the secret area of the level 8 (dropped down from "Four Corners"), the skeleton patrol pinned me on the stairs and I had to keep taking a hit, running downstairs, running as far away from the stair as I could to "lead" them, then back up the stairs to take another hit and do it all over again (they never really moved away). My suggestion: create a row of blockers on the inside of their room, then a hidden plate that deactivates them at the top of the stairs (Activate Once, by player). That will keep them from wandering too close to the stairs until the player arrives (but will allow them to follow the player to the stairs, if he's foolish enough to back up there).
Right now I'm stuck on the second ring inside on level 7. I've opened up the secret area, and I only see one wooden door. No gems have been dropped,but I've defeated two individual skeletal warriors. I've flipped every lever on the walls, and sidled along all the walls to make sure I didn't miss any buttons. Any hints, please?

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Billick
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by Billick » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:09 am

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you're enjoying it.
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- "Will not leave with the flesh of my brothers:" Very cool idea, but player can just set them down, sidestep back onto the plate, pick them all up and move on as normal. Maybe move the door one tile into the tunnel and have a second plate as a check?

-This was intentional. See, the snails aren't very bright, so their traps aren't very good :) Also, I wanted to reward the player with extra food if they could figure out that they could fool the trap

- Coming back up from the secret area of the level 8 (dropped down from "Four Corners"), the skeleton patrol pinned me on the stairs and I had to keep taking a hit, running downstairs, running as far away from the stair as I could to "lead" them, then back up the stairs to take another hit and do it all over again (they never really moved away). My suggestion: create a row of blockers on the inside of their room, then a hidden plate that deactivates them at the top of the stairs (Activate Once, by player). That will keep them from wandering too close to the stairs until the player arrives (but will allow them to follow the player to the stairs, if he's foolish enough to back up there).
I hadn't considered that. The easier solution might even be to set up the patrol as a guard so that they don't move until they see the player. If I do another update, I will fix this.
Right now I'm stuck on the second ring inside on level 7. I've opened up the secret area, and I only see one wooden door. No gems have been dropped,but I've defeated two individual skeletal warriors. I've flipped every lever on the walls, and sidled along all the walls to make sure I didn't miss any buttons. Any hints, please?
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Remember the theme of the level is "Four Corners"
If you're still stuck:
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The levers in the corners need to be pulled, while the levers on the sides need to be in their original positions
Halls of Barrian - current version 1.0.3 - Steam Nexus
Me Grimrock no bozo!

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SpiderFighter
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by SpiderFighter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:08 pm

Billick wrote:If you're still stuck:
SpoilerShow
The levers in the corners need to be pulled, while the levers on the sides need to be in their original positions
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Nope...all corner levers are pulled, all middle ones are in their original positions. I've been around three more times, just to be sure I'm not being dense (not that that means I'm still not being dense!) but I still seem to be stuck. If you want to take a look, here's my save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jalmqy3n8sb8a ... game20.sav

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Billick
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by Billick » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:53 pm

SpiderFighter wrote:
Billick wrote:If you're still stuck:
SpoilerShow
The levers in the corners need to be pulled, while the levers on the sides need to be in their original positions
SpoilerShow
Nope...all corner levers are pulled, all middle ones are in their original positions. I've been around three more times, just to be sure I'm not being dense (not that that means I'm still not being dense!) but I still seem to be stuck. If you want to take a look, here's my save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jalmqy3n8sb8a ... game20.sav
Yeah, that sounds like a bug. I'll take a look at it tonight if I have time.
Halls of Barrian - current version 1.0.3 - Steam Nexus
Me Grimrock no bozo!

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SpiderFighter
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by SpiderFighter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:26 pm

Billick wrote:Yeah, that sounds like a bug. I'll take a look at it tonight if I have time.
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it so far!

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Billick
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by Billick » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:48 pm

SpiderFighter wrote:
Billick wrote:Yeah, that sounds like a bug. I'll take a look at it tonight if I have time.
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it so far!
I went home for lunch this afternoon, and took a look at what was going on. As it turns out, it's not a bug.
SpoilerShow
One of the corner levers still needed to be pulled down
This does make me feel like this puzzle was probably a little bit too hard for something that's required to progress. I'm thinking maybe I should add some hints if the player isn't doing the right thing, and have the hints get more explicit after a while.
Halls of Barrian - current version 1.0.3 - Steam Nexus
Me Grimrock no bozo!

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SpiderFighter
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by SpiderFighter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:51 pm

Billick wrote:
SpiderFighter wrote:
Billick wrote:Yeah, that sounds like a bug. I'll take a look at it tonight if I have time.
Thanks, I'm really enjoying it so far!
I went home for lunch this afternoon, and took a look at what was going on. As it turns out, it's not a bug.
SpoilerShow
One of the corner levers still needed to be pulled down
This does make me feel like this puzzle was probably a little bit too hard for something that's required to progress. I'm thinking maybe I should add some hints if the player isn't doing the right thing, and have the hints get more explicit after a while.
Nah, don't blame yourself I was too sleep deprived to not see that after THREE TRIPS around the halls!! :shock:
Just toss a corpse in the secret area with a note and a clue if you think it's needed (maybe something about him having to settle for starving in that area, as he can't figure out how to access the internal area?).

[EDIT: I think some kind of clue might be needed, as what you're talking about is a single puzzle with 8 levers, which is 16 factorial (or 20,922,789,888,000 different permutations!).]

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Billick
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by Billick » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:19 pm

SpiderFighter wrote:
Nah, don't blame yourself I was too sleep deprived to not see that after THREE TRIPS around the halls!! :shock:
Just toss a corpse in the secret area with a note and a clue if you think it's needed (maybe something about him having to settle for starving in that area, as he can't figure out how to access the internal area?).

[EDIT: I think some kind of clue might be needed, as what you're talking about is a single puzzle with 8 levers, which is 16 factorial (or 20,922,789,888,000 different permutations!).]
I think it's only 2^8 combinations... which is still 256 different combinations, so too many to solve through brute force in a reasonable amount of time. I think the problem is that the player doesn't get any feedback unless the puzzle is solved. I'm thinking maybe doing a hudPrint when the player makes a certain number of wrong choices. Something like:
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4 wrong lever pulls "Randomly pulling levers doesn't seem to be doing anything. Maybe they need to be in some sort of pattern?"
8 wrong lever pulls "I wonder what 'Four Corners' means."
12+ wrong lever pulls - Right direction "Pulling that lever seemed like the right thing to do."; Wrong direction "Pulling that lever felt like the wrong thing to do."
Thanks again for the feedback, it's been extremely helpful!
Halls of Barrian - current version 1.0.3 - Steam Nexus
Me Grimrock no bozo!

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SpiderFighter
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by SpiderFighter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:30 pm

Billick wrote: I think the problem is that the player doesn't get any feedback unless the puzzle is solved. I'm thinking maybe doing a hudPrint when the player makes a certain number of wrong choices. Something like:
SpoilerShow
4 wrong lever pulls "Randomly pulling levers doesn't seem to be doing anything. Maybe they need to be in some sort of pattern?"
8 wrong lever pulls "I wonder what 'Four Corners' means."
12+ wrong lever pulls - Right direction "Pulling that lever seemed like the right thing to do."; Wrong direction "Pulling that lever felt like the wrong thing to do."
Wow...that's exactly what JW and I were talking about this morning, regarding a teleporter puzzle I had in my Frungeon submission (which I've just deleted). The solution for mine was only evident after failing a number of times. Your soultion is quite brilliant, and a very clever and elegant way to handle a clue system.

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leewroy
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Re: [MOD] Halls of Barrian v1.0.1 released

Post by leewroy » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:23 pm

Hi dude. I´ve been playing your module since yesterday and didn't have more troubles to figure all the stuff so far. But now...
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I´m stuck in the "boss" battle in the level 6. There's an altar and I tried to put mushrooms, the blue gems and even the meat that creature drop, but nothing seems to work, the boss is still immune to my attacks. What I´m doing wrong?

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