[Mod] Sever The wicked

Talk about creating Grimrock 1 levels and mods here. Warning: forum contains spoilers!
SpacialKatana
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by SpacialKatana » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:15 pm

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Last edited by SpacialKatana on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Komag
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by Komag » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:37 pm

There is a sublime subtlety to the original puzzles that is hard to replicate - just the right amount of clever hints, just the right amount of clues, fairness, etc, and usually things are kept local, not too many switch or button hunts, things are usually "contained" in areas and sections, etc. They did an extremely excellent job which is very hard to live up to.
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Merethif
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by Merethif » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:10 am

If by Pit Puzzle you mean Repository, then I don't think it's unbalanced.

I'm at the entrance to Chamber of Damned (or Hall of Damned, don't remember) at the moment and I'm enjoying your mod very much. I have only 3 issues:

1. Limited food supplies at the beginning. I was starving A LOT in first level. Later on it's all right (especially since I've chosen Fate of Frost as first one). From the other hand, those limited supplies create extra challange (contrary to original LoG, which has a way too much foodstuff). Every time I'm finding a drum stick I have to make a choice - ok, who needs energy most?

2. Not a single dagger so far! I'm playing all rogues party (dagger/unarmed/missile/throwing) and one of the characters have to fight with longsword even though, with all those points in daggers, she would be way more effective with a simple knife probably. I guess similar situation would be with a character focusing on maces. The first mace I've found is the ogre hammer at the end of level 2 (at least it was end in my case). Especially since other type weapons are to be found early. And powerful ones too.
Of course there may be a secret alcove or room that I didn't find, which contain dagger/mace. It's very likely.

3. Fight with a warden was terrible. I was fighting with him for half an hour dealing tiny damage with my assassin's backstabs (between 5 to 35 points of damage per hit unless missed, since she were forced to fight with longsword there were no accuracy bonus from skills). Rest of the characters where just spectators. The archer contributed nicely but after he shot fifth arrow he run out of ammo. Brawler was doing 0 damage unless she was lucky and got special attack, but since she was starving she didn't regenerate energy. After several jabs she became useless. Thrown rocks deal 0 damage to warden so a thrower was totally useless from the very beginning of this fight. I'd suggest making a warden with less HP. Unless there is other method of annihilating him and I'm just not smart enough :-D

Apart from those three issues I like pretty much everything else so far. Really nice puzzles, interesting custom monsters and items. The puzzle with crimson lightning bolts and pit traps sequence was brilliant. I'm looking forward to next levels.

SpacialKatana
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by SpacialKatana » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:37 am

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Last edited by SpacialKatana on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Komag
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by Komag » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:05 am

SpacialKatana wrote: 1. I did re-balance food a bit , if your party is 4 mino's expect to die ;)

2. I personally hate rogues...it's a WoW thing :evil: if I have to use a rogue he/she uses missile weapons. Remember, there is no spoon (sorry dagger).

3. There's a secret room with a powerful staff...if you pick it up it spawns the Guardian.....no mage = tough luck (See 2).
All three of these points mean that some players are out of luck because you are not making your dungeon approachable with any party. If you at least give a full warning about this in the description then I guess that's good enough:
"Don't use more than one Minotaur, there is not much food and he'll starve"
"Don't use Rogues, there aren't any weapons for them"
"You'll definitely need a mage or two, this dungeon favors them"
etc

I think it might be wiser to adjust things so any party can work, but if you really don't want to, warnings can suffice
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SpacialKatana
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by SpacialKatana » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:22 am

Cancelled

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Komag
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by Komag » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:57 am

?? If that's in response to my post I didn't mean to sound too negative, sorry about that. :( I just think players will either need free options to choose their party and have it work fine, or they'll need fair warnings about what sort of party will work best for this dungeon, that's all. :oops:
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Merethif
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by Merethif » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:53 am

Komag wrote:
SpacialKatana wrote: 1. I did re-balance food a bit , if your party is 4 mino's expect to die ;)

2. I personally hate rogues...it's a WoW thing :evil: if I have to use a rogue he/she uses missile weapons. Remember, there is no spoon (sorry dagger).

3. There's a secret room with a powerful staff...if you pick it up it spawns the Guardian.....no mage = tough luck (See 2).
All three of these points mean that some players are out of luck because you are not making your dungeon approachable with any party. If you at least give a full warning about this in the description then I guess that's good enough:
"Don't use more than one Minotaur, there is not much food and he'll starve"
"Don't use Rogues, there aren't any weapons for them"
"You'll definitely need a mage or two, this dungeon favors them"
etc

I think it might be wiser to adjust things so any party can work, but if you really don't want to, warnings can suffice
1. Just one minotaur, but as I said, it was not big issue.

2. Rogues are not WoW things. I've never played WoW and I don't have much sympathy for that MMO either.
But I've been levelling up mostly as rogue in Lands of Lore, I've played as thief in Baldur's Gate and as rogue in Neverwinter Nights (where I got another rogue as companion), I've developed stealth skills (like daggers and bows) in Dark Messiah and focused on yellow skills in Fable (yes, I've maxed Guile in Fable, which was considered most useless skill) I just can't live without backstabs and headshots ;-)
That's why I'm used to being punished by game developers :-D but when I win I have that additional satisfaction - like in the case of backstabbing a Warden with longsword ;-)

Plus I have a friend who doesn't like rogues/thieves too, so I had hard times playing pen & paper RPG with him since he often was a GM. Not only he usually forgot to include any thief related treasures to the loot but he totally ignored any rogue-styled strategies (like scouting, sneaking or using traps). He was strong believers of sword and fireballs. That's why most my pen & paper characters ended up as clerics :-)

3. Now you really makes me to want to restart your mod with a mage. Spawning guardian must be awesome.

Anyway, the more testers you got, the better your mod may become, because you got different opinions from ppl with different playstyles and preferences.

remanufactory
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by remanufactory » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:59 pm

I found a problem which makes you get stuck, I don't know if it is a flaw in design or it's just me.
SpoilerShow
In the Fate of Frost room, if I manage to pass over the open pits, and I slay the monster, if I fall in the pits I get teleported back on the wrong side of the room, and my exit is blocked. I had to reload. I don't know how to close the pit hatch - I thought it was the arrows launched by skeletons, so once I killed them I could not close the hatch again.

It also happens if I manage to kill the ogre before crossing the pits. Once dead, the pits don't close anymore. Probably I couldn't figure out the mechanism...
Last edited by remanufactory on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

remanufactory
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Re: [Mod] Sever The wicked

Post by remanufactory » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:15 pm

Ok I am stuck:
SpoilerShow
I am in the Bones masher room. 4 demons with 4 pits, and a corridor of pits. The demons say: "feed me". I guess they want bones. I throw skeletal remains in the pits in front of every demon, then I throw skulls, but nothing happens. Am I on the right way? What am I missing?
Some clues are welcome :)

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