Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

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Kejardon
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Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Kejardon » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:45 am

I got to the end of Level 3, but I don't think I can get past the first room in Level 4, unless anyone has any really clever tricks to suggest.
http://pbrd.co/X4Bpeh

if you missed it... I have 0 experience.
I don't think I can get an extra iron key, I can't think of any ways to kill the enemies indirectly, there don't seem to be any tricks I can pull on the triggers, and I'm pretty sure I can't go around the room.

::edit::
The run is complete now, this is the only point in the game where I was forced to kill an enemy. So for those curious: There is one enemy you are absolutely forced to directly kill (although many more that need to be killed but may be killed indirectly): A large herder at the start of level 4 for 95 EXP.
Last edited by Kejardon on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Komag
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Komag » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:02 am

that first room on level four is indeed a tough fight, just move and attack quickly, try to focus on killing off one of them fast
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Dr.Disaster
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Dr.Disaster » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:28 pm

Kejardon wrote:I got to the end of Level 3, but I don't think I can get past the first room in Level 4, unless anyone has any really clever tricks to suggest.
http://pbrd.co/X4Bpeh

if you missed it... I have 0 experience.
I don't think I can get an extra iron key, I can't think of any ways to kill the enemies indirectly, there don't seem to be any tricks I can pull on the triggers, and I'm pretty sure I can't go around the room.
From the screenshot i figure your challenge is to make it thru the game without killing anything. Well while your effords to this point are great simply forget that. It's not possible.

Even if you COULD somehow make it past the level 4 entry room with some extra iron key so you don't have to kill both big herders for theirs you won't be able to exit level 4 without winning at least 1 fight. While gathering the four scrolls needed to open the exit to level 5 a tentacle monster will BLOCK the entrance of the main puzzle room. To pass it you have to kill it.

Neutronium Dragon
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Neutronium Dragon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:44 am

That does bring up a good question though: what's the absolute minimum number of kills you could theoretically get away with? (I realize the sheer number of things that spawn in some areas make it unlikely that you could actually complete the game with only that theoretical minimum, but "How close to this number can you get?" might be a viable challenge in its own right.)

Kejardon
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Kejardon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:21 am

I think I'll keep going and try and figure that out. For the tentacles, I don't think the situation works out if I remember it right, but you can totally get Skeleton Archers to kill enemies without counting as your kill/experience (it would have in Dungeon Master though where each person only took up 1/4 of the square!). I'll update this thread each time I get stuck and see if anyone else can think of any solutions.

::edit::
First stuck point was mentioned in the first post.
Large Herder - 95 EXP

The tentacles mentioned are proving to be extremely annoying, but I'm pretty sure I can get past them just fine! The Trails of Thought puzzle is proving exceedingly difficult, but I THINK I can get past it... just need to drop the skeleton into a pit while not getting trapped by the crowern.

::edit2::
Done for the night. Level 4 completed.

Noteworthy stuff so far, in spoilers in case anyone wants to figure this out themselves.
Level 1
SpoilerShow
Level 1 was tedious at the start with the three snails, it took me some trial and error to figure out a good strategy (I was also playing with difficulties trying to decide if I should do this challenge on easy, medium, or hard. I ended up going with hard to vastly reduce tedium of waiting for enemies). The first I ignored, the second I lured all the way back to a looparound, the third I just juked in the 2x2 area. The rest of the level basically was 'Lure to simple rock-throw puzzle, telefrag'.
Level 2
SpoilerShow
Before really doing anything on this level, I prepared the pit at the south of level 1 for falling onto enemies when the rest of Level 1 was basically clear. Level 2 start was tedious because of having to heal constantly after using this trap to kill enemies. I actually permanently locked myself on the far side of the two-switch door, so I will never be able to return to level 1 or the start of level 2, but there are also a couple fewer enemies I had to deal with. I rushed to the teleport before 'Enter thy grave' part and used that to telefrag enemies, and the rest of level 2 was pretty much cakewalk.
I did the 'Enter thy grave' part anyways. Trick for those that don't know it: Toss something in (by hand, not as a thrown weapon) to trigger the plate, then reopen the room, and you can easily force the enemies to face you one by one without having to run around. Or telefrag them in the nearby teleporter!
Level 3
SpoilerShow
The start of this floor was pain. I ran to the first pit/teleporter, then it took me a while to figure out the timing for telefragging enemies while not dieing from arrows/getting trapped by enemies. I actually got my first enemy friendly-fire kill here as an experiment. I weakened a crowern then got the skeleton archer to finish it off. I was pretty sure I lost experience on a previous playthrough from team-killing Goromorg spells and this confirmed it. I ended up trapping the archers in the secret room, killing them was probably doable but a lot of work against a very annoying enemy.
A lot of skeletons ended up in the first pit in the next part, I left them alive again because it was a lot of work. The next area just before spiders gave a telefrag spot anyways, although this was REALLY hard to use against the first few spiders because of how quick and randomly they moved. As soon as I got to the pits with a secret switch revealing a teleporter though the rest of the level was just about cakewalk, even though there was a lot of backtracking and I had that path drilled into my head. I learned EXACTLY where the spider trap was triggered and ran back immediately. Playing as Toorum made it actually easy to outrun the door that let the spiders out! Pretty sure it's still doable without though, but you might want to go through the gate in the north-east loop to be safe.
Level 4
SpoilerShow
Surprisingly simple level. The first room is the unavoidable kill. After that teleporters make for easy telefragging (I left a couple archers alive on purpose though). The catacombs are telefraggable, the garden is telefraggable AND not necessary to telefrag in. Time and Tide was very annoying with the Crowern hiding near the far door but that was more bad luck than anything for me and only took three-four tries. Trails was the hardest. Crowern won't follow to the teleport room. I had to do it three times: Rush the puzzle once to open the door and fall into a pit before the Crowern trapped me, Repeat to lure the skeleton into a pit then telefrag it because the crowern was blocking me from fixing the puzzle, then repeat once more to actually PASS the puzzle. Killing a couple skeletons downstairs also took several tries, which I did in a safer puzzle.
The tentacles are easily handled by just backtracking when they spawn - end up back in the middle of the main area, instead of hitting the teleporter to before the main area. I weakened them then let a skeleton archer finish them off so I could go back and heal.
On finishing the scrolls I ran for the exit (grabbed that frost bomb on the way!) and I will probably never return.

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Komag
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Komag » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:15 pm

ah, I didn't realize you were taking this approach, crazy! good luck, it's quite a unique challenge
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Kejardon
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Kejardon » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:16 am

Thanks, I'm needing all the luck I can get! I've completed level 6 with still only one kill, but I was unable to snag all four round keys of the level. Not for lack of trying.

I forgot to mention last post that I learned something interesting: Ranged enemies KNOW where tentacles are even when they're hidden and won't shoot over them.
I learned another interesting thing today too. You can kill things with poison clouds even when you are no longer on the same level, and you still get the experience for it.

Level 5
SpoilerShow
There's actually nothing interesting to say about this level! Very straightforward for this challenge, easy to get to the first pit/teleporter and telefrag everything, life crystal is in a convenient location. I ended up running after nabbing the second key, I left the exit surrounded by skeleton archers and warriors. Hope I won't need to return, but I'm pretty sure there's no reason to.
Level 6
SpoilerShow
This level started out really fun and interesting. I started out in the halls of fire, grabbed the firesword, and crossed the pit to the fireball trap. That fireball trap is just about the best enemy-killer in the game. I killed tons of stuff on the level by luring it to that room, then quickly dropping a rock and picking it up on the trap. I fell down one of the pits then and managed to telefrag all the Crowerns and Wyverns below. Doing the puzzle without killing the Uggardians was also pretty hectic and fun, although made much more feasible by playing Toorum. I didn't get Nex's sword though, and I'm pretty certain I'm not going through the Fighter's challenge even if I did.
The slugs and the skeleton warriors were torture. It took forever to drain enough slugs to run past them to the key then back. The skeletons were horrible too, they spawned CONSTANTLY making it nigh-impossible to avoid getting surrounded. I had to drag a Uggardian over to kill some of them off, and after countless tries and save scumming I managed to nab the key and run away.
The last key was in the sequencis thing, where there's a slug sitting at a lever you need to pull. I tried a few things to get past that slug. A Uggardian's fireballs wouldn't teleport once, let alone twice as they needed to hit the slug in time. I mentioned Poison cloud at the start of this post and you can piece that together I'm sure.
I DID manage to snag the orb though! I had to use a freeze bomb to freeze one of the crabs on one side of the 2x3 room, then juke the other spide on the other side of the room. Did this because I didn't bother to pick up the whitewood wand earlier and I wanted to try poison cloud on the slug. That plan failed though so... getting the orb was probably a waste of a freeze bomb. Oh well.
Interesting supplies I have leftover at this point: 2 golden keys, 1 gear key, 3 freeze bombs, fire blade.

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Komag
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Komag » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:37 pm

it's possible to do the haunted halls without spawning any skeletons, if you know where the invisible spawn plates are like I do! but you do end up needing at least one to hold the door plate down
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Kejardon
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Kejardon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:51 am

I hit another stuck point.

Level 4 - Herder - 95 EXP
Level 9 - Uggardian - 500 EXP

Total 595 EXP

I need to kill the first Uggardian to get an ornate key. This key opens the path to the three Uggardians/teleporters which would allow me to telefrag enemies. It leads to another ornate key.
The only other ornate keys earlier are both required in level 5.

Level 7
SpoilerShow
I trapped two slimes in the first room immediately, then had several failures after trying to get past the rest. I eventually equipped the fireblade, sprinted past a few slimes, broke the crate with a fireball (a firebomb might've worked instead, I didn't try because I didn't have any at the moment), and sprinted past the rest. Pretty painful but it wasn't TOO bad.
The slimes don't get close enough to the shadow maze to get telefragged, so I don't want to backtrack, again.
I spent a horrible amount of time telefragging the next few rooms with the pit that leads to a secret then healing. It is EXTREMELY hard to nail enemies with this telefrag, they like to either not move into that square, or move PAST it before you teleport back up.
The teleporters later on worked great though.
Level 8
SpoilerShow
This level is optional. I decided to skip it until there was a reason not to.
Level 9
SpoilerShow
I'm not through this level yet, but I've already spent more time on it than any other level. I have lured about 8-10 raptors back to the checkered room, chipped away at their hp, and danced around with a Uggardian (they do damage faster to raptors than I do!) to deal with each one, then sprinted past the remaining 4 or so raptors.
Then I ran into that first ornate door. Oh yeah.
I cleared the first (raptor) of the three center doors, and the last one (I simply ran past everything, with the looparounds I had no problems). Then I was stuck staring at the ornate door trying to remember where the key was. I backtracked and killed an Uggardian myself to find it.
Gonna try and come up with a workaround before I continue, but that Uggardian will probably be the second kill of the run.

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Komag
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Re: Challenge Run, probably uncompletable

Post by Komag » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:23 pm

It might be theoretically possible to lure it all the way down to the pillared hallway and telefrag there?
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