Is it viable to make a 4 Mages party focusing on all elements (one each)? Or will you be crushed in some points in the game (fighter challenge?)?
Also do circles of protection (and shield spells) of the same kind, but from different Mages stack? Like if you have 2 Fire Mages with 32 skill points in Fire?
How effective and how needed is the +60 (+25+35) resist ALL you'd get with 4 Mages?
Thanks.
PS: Has anyone gotten spellcraft to 50? Any reason to?
4 Mages viable?
Re: 4 Mages viable?
I think your damage output will be far too low, and your damage avoidance/resistance far too weak. Much of this can obviously be dealt with by kiting and resting/crystals but... well you'll need some serious patience. Queuing up runes for four guys while kiting... you'd have to major in rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time.
Mage spells just aren't on par with the damage per second available to other weapon types, so this would purely be (an exercise in self-harm) for fun.
About the only time damage protection is really handy in the game are during two particular areas and both are poison (earth) related. If I were to give this a go, I would be tempted to have two ice mages, just to double the chance of freezing an opponent. Then rush in and poison cloud the frozen dude.
I would watch a youtube video of a 4 mage fighter's challenge, but I suspect it would be 90% bomb damage.
Mage spells just aren't on par with the damage per second available to other weapon types, so this would purely be (an exercise in self-harm) for fun.
About the only time damage protection is really handy in the game are during two particular areas and both are poison (earth) related. If I were to give this a go, I would be tempted to have two ice mages, just to double the chance of freezing an opponent. Then rush in and poison cloud the frozen dude.
I would watch a youtube video of a 4 mage fighter's challenge, but I suspect it would be 90% bomb damage.
Re: 4 Mages viable?
LOLed for real! ^.^Porkdish wrote: Queuing up runes for four guys while kiting... you'd have to major in rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time..
Thanks for the other info.
You didn't say anything about resists stacking (from different Mages of same element) so I assume they don't.
BTW I was hoping to have 4 damage spells (1 each) prepared at start of each fight and hope that mage power would be enough to blow an opponent while I run around a corner and setup for the next. Maybe finish it up with weapons. Can you use magic if you equip a bow or only with thrown and melee weapons? I guess I could use shields too...
Re: 4 Mages viable?
Every party is able to beat the game.
With 4 mages its a lot of clicking, so you have to be quick with your mouse. But its possible.
2 Tanks and 2 mages is much easier and more fun i would say. The damage is very good.
With 4 mages its a lot of clicking, so you have to be quick with your mouse. But its possible.
2 Tanks and 2 mages is much easier and more fun i would say. The damage is very good.
SpoilerShow
Fireball from a level 13 mage is about 150-250 damage. Shockbolt is about 50 points less, poison bolt becomes a poison cloud later, which is annoying, cause you sometimes get no exp. Ice is not so good in damage (about 100 or so), but freezes the enemy and very long in endgame. You dont need all schools of magic! Two for every mage is ideal.
Last edited by Bardamu on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4 Mages viable?
I know you can beat the game with anything, but is it enjoyable and powerful?
Also to add to my other unanswered questions (bows, resistances and stuff), how good is Invisibility and Darkness? What should I know about those 2 spells?
Can you use em to help in Fighter's Challenge or it doesn't work if you're so surrounded? Does not-attacking make any difference detection-wise?
Thanks.
PS: I'm thinking of adding 1 Minotaur for Headhunter, probably ranged fighter (or is rogue better for that?) and armor user (tank and less micro, plus someone's got to use all those encahnted arrows). I'm thinking of dropping the Earth Mage, his attack spells seem to suck a bit, but isn't poison resist one of the most important one to keep frustrating parts of the game in check?
Also to add to my other unanswered questions (bows, resistances and stuff), how good is Invisibility and Darkness? What should I know about those 2 spells?
Can you use em to help in Fighter's Challenge or it doesn't work if you're so surrounded? Does not-attacking make any difference detection-wise?
Thanks.
PS: I'm thinking of adding 1 Minotaur for Headhunter, probably ranged fighter (or is rogue better for that?) and armor user (tank and less micro, plus someone's got to use all those encahnted arrows). I'm thinking of dropping the Earth Mage, his attack spells seem to suck a bit, but isn't poison resist one of the most important one to keep frustrating parts of the game in check?
Re: 4 Mages viable?
Spellcraft 10 is enough, to wear the orbs and staffs. More is not needed and better invested in the power of your spells.
Resistances are nice, but normally you can avoid being hitten.
I think resistances stack, but you wont need that (even on hard, which isnt so hard ...).
Ranged combat is a good thing, but two tanks are more important. But hey: both ways are ok. And the most fun is 2 mage/2tanks (probably one evade-tank) imo.
With a little bit grinding in level 6 (firemaze and skeletons/snails going from one to the other) you can reach about level 15 without problems.
And i'm sure, that you will master the game without problems with 4 mages, if they all have enough in ice (13) to cast frostbolt..
Invisibilty works as intended, but is resolved if you are on a square next to a mob. Darkness is only for instantly lights out, not really needed.
Resistances are nice, but normally you can avoid being hitten.
I think resistances stack, but you wont need that (even on hard, which isnt so hard ...).
Ranged combat is a good thing, but two tanks are more important. But hey: both ways are ok. And the most fun is 2 mage/2tanks (probably one evade-tank) imo.
With a little bit grinding in level 6 (firemaze and skeletons/snails going from one to the other) you can reach about level 15 without problems.
And i'm sure, that you will master the game without problems with 4 mages, if they all have enough in ice (13) to cast frostbolt.
SpoilerShow
The only mobs which resist ice are ice lizards in level 9, and then you have enough power in fire and air to blow them away
Invisibilty works as intended, but is resolved if you are on a square next to a mob. Darkness is only for instantly lights out, not really needed.
SpoilerShow
Both are necessary to enter the fighters challenge for reaching a nice spot to fight (behind the gate, using golden key)
Re: 4 Mages viable?
Four mages is viable in the sense that any party is viable. You can do it, but I won't imagine you'll have an easy time in the tougher fights.
Against individual monsters, Mage damage is so front-loaded that you'll be able to blow them away instantly. When you have to fight groups, or get surrounded, you'd probably have an easier time with a more balanced party. Since those are the toughest fights anyway, I'd say that an all-Mage party is suboptimal. You could try it for the challenge, though.
Against individual monsters, Mage damage is so front-loaded that you'll be able to blow them away instantly. When you have to fight groups, or get surrounded, you'd probably have an easier time with a more balanced party. Since those are the toughest fights anyway, I'd say that an all-Mage party is suboptimal. You could try it for the challenge, though.
Re: 4 Mages viable?
4 mages would be incredibly tedious to play, imo. Enemies move too fast, and spells do too little damage. It would be viable but you would spend a lot of time saving and loading, at least on hard imo. Particularly when you encounter any of the immune / resistant enemies.
I just finished the game with 2 missile rogues and 2 mages. It wasn't that hard, but the missile rogues did most of the damage.
Invisibility and darkness are good for sneaking around and can help not being surrounded in the fighter's challenge. I used both spells to complete it, but it was still very challenging and i had to rely extensively on bombs to finish it. I imagine it would have been impossible for me with 4 mages.
I just finished the game with 2 missile rogues and 2 mages. It wasn't that hard, but the missile rogues did most of the damage.
Invisibility and darkness are good for sneaking around and can help not being surrounded in the fighter's challenge. I used both spells to complete it, but it was still very challenging and i had to rely extensively on bombs to finish it. I imagine it would have been impossible for me with 4 mages.
Re: 4 Mages viable?
Thanks for the replies.
I started to play a 4 Mages Insectoid team (max (+6) willpower, +4 to vitality, skilled and strong mind for all) one element focus each (+2 to spellcraft for all at creation).
It's frackin hard >.<
So much micro for a newbie like me. And all the spells are close range except ice shards. At first level-up I got poison bolt but right after that most enemies were poison immune skeletons /doh! (does it do DoT? seems weak if not)
One trick I found was I put the party order such that it reminds me what runes to press. I mean I put the Fire guy first (on 1) so I remember his rune is top left), Air mage on position 2 cause his base rune is top right, etc. It helped learn/memorize all the basic spells fast.
party order:
1-2 Front Row
3-4 Back Row
My fear is it will be much harder when I get the better attack spells with 2 runes each (3 for fireball), I'll be frackin confused all over again >.<
Plus I'll have to share all the mage equipment, which will suck I'm sure.
I had 1 death so far when I was careless and as punishment I made them all carry shields (from the undead warriors). Heh I even tried going with 4 spears and it did take a lot longer to kill mobs than with spells ^.^
PS: Ugh I forgot to name them at creation! Anyway to fix that pls? I want to name them after their respective elements
I started to play a 4 Mages Insectoid team (max (+6) willpower, +4 to vitality, skilled and strong mind for all) one element focus each (+2 to spellcraft for all at creation).
It's frackin hard >.<
So much micro for a newbie like me. And all the spells are close range except ice shards. At first level-up I got poison bolt but right after that most enemies were poison immune skeletons /doh! (does it do DoT? seems weak if not)
One trick I found was I put the party order such that it reminds me what runes to press. I mean I put the Fire guy first (on 1) so I remember his rune is top left), Air mage on position 2 cause his base rune is top right, etc. It helped learn/memorize all the basic spells fast.
party order:
1-2 Front Row
3-4 Back Row
My fear is it will be much harder when I get the better attack spells with 2 runes each (3 for fireball), I'll be frackin confused all over again >.<
Plus I'll have to share all the mage equipment, which will suck I'm sure.
I had 1 death so far when I was careless and as punishment I made them all carry shields (from the undead warriors). Heh I even tried going with 4 spears and it did take a lot longer to kill mobs than with spells ^.^
PS: Ugh I forgot to name them at creation! Anyway to fix that pls? I want to name them after their respective elements
Re: 4 Mages viable?
Bardamu:
Hmm, I still don't get how invisibility helps in Fighter Challenge if as you say "it is resolved if you are on a square next to a mob" (does resolved mean it can see you always or sometimes/chance?) and you start surrounded already
And how is Darkness necessary if all it does is put out your light? Does that make you stealthier? I'm confused. (I got the Light/Darkness spells on my fire guy already)
(edit: oh and nice suggestion about all mages getting ice 13 for frostbolt and freeze spam)
Emeryan:
I agree with you completely.
Hachi:
I agree, that's why I'm on normal difficulty.
So I'm guessing no one's finished the game with 4 Mages yet? Maybe I'll be first (yeah right, fat chance)
How exactly did you use Invisibility and Darkness in Fighter's Challenge pls?
PS: Anybody got any stats on spells (damage, energy cost, etc) or are the DEVs secretive about it?
Hmm, I still don't get how invisibility helps in Fighter Challenge if as you say "it is resolved if you are on a square next to a mob" (does resolved mean it can see you always or sometimes/chance?) and you start surrounded already
And how is Darkness necessary if all it does is put out your light? Does that make you stealthier? I'm confused. (I got the Light/Darkness spells on my fire guy already)
(edit: oh and nice suggestion about all mages getting ice 13 for frostbolt and freeze spam)
Emeryan:
I agree with you completely.
Hachi:
I agree, that's why I'm on normal difficulty.
So I'm guessing no one's finished the game with 4 Mages yet? Maybe I'll be first (yeah right, fat chance)
How exactly did you use Invisibility and Darkness in Fighter's Challenge pls?
PS: Anybody got any stats on spells (damage, energy cost, etc) or are the DEVs secretive about it?